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New PVP patch notes are completely bogus

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
New PVP patch notes are completely bogus
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relaxpearl's Avatar


relaxpearl
04.05.2013 , 04:50 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Trevalion View Post
Your entitled to your opinion as well, for sure. I apologize for calling QQ.

How is grinding for gear == work? Isn't it really == time?

The grind to get stats to be competitive does not "teach people to play". I do not think this bolster system rewards players who haven't put in the effort. As the other poster says, it just stops punishing players that are relatively new participants, and the players who have put in the effort who randomly get grouped with them.

It provides a nice introductory curve, which in turn gives more potential for a growing pvp community. A stale PvP community is boring IMO.

It provides a better baseline for the developers to balance against. Again, in my opinion this is a must have feature for the pvp meta-game.

It provides a better baseline for stat tweaking, with IMO more options for personalizing your character stats to suit your play style. Another must-have for the pvp meta-game. Gear progression as it stands right now is extremely cookie-cutter. Every min/maxed player has the exact same stats because... the gear is the same.

For me, balancing all those pro's (which are measurable and verifiable) against a con that is purely based on opinion is pretty simple, which lead to my harsh response. Bottom line is, what I understand you to be saying is you don't like the new bolster because it's not fair? Its obviously not fair that new participants wont have to grind and spend time to get enough baseline stats to be remotely competitive? Sounds off to me bro.

see and thats cool man, just two different opinions. i like the conflict... i like the frustration of getting your *** handed to you forcing you to seek a better option. And in an mmo crafting and farming money augmenting and gearing out those things are work. But you never will seek the answers if you dont have an experience to force you to.


i prefer a broad spectrum of completely under geared to way over geared it makes every match interesting in its own way based on whos geared in what class and how many of them.


instead of just a mix of evenly geared people with a few differences in class make up every round.

relaxpearl's Avatar


relaxpearl
04.05.2013 , 04:53 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
If you allow one-sided encounters thanks to stats, not only the "crusher" won't learn anything, but the "crushed one" won't either because even the new moves and tactics he'll try won't work, and he won't be able to tell if it was good ones or not.

You learn by having approximately even matches, if the issue of the match is heavily determined by the actions of the players.
you say that as if thats the only thing that happens in a match. one person with even gear and the other with no gear. Im talking about the entire spectrum. thats where it becomes interesting. But i have taken out more geared people than me and been taken out by undergeared people


but learning by approximately even matches is absolutely false. then there is no difference in situations to teach you new tricks, new reactions, rotations. YOu're not being forced to try anything new because you're not actually being tried by unfair odds.

necessity brings about change... not mediocrity.

Trevalion's Avatar


Trevalion
04.05.2013 , 04:53 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by relaxpearl View Post
what a bold and ignorant statement. i enjoy the contest that comes from fighting people who are much more geared than me just as much as i enjoy crushing some lazy player who has no idea what they are doing....


because when i get crushed i actually learn how to play my class.



just because someone wants to keep a gear differential in the game says nothing about the reason they enjoy it and it takes a very ignorant individual to make such a specific opinion just because they disagree.
The obvious assumption I get from reading this post is the one that states that with the new bolster system you will no longer get crushed. Hate to break it to you, but the probability of you and your team never getting crushed again because of stat equality is vanishingly small.

relaxpearl's Avatar


relaxpearl
04.05.2013 , 04:56 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Trevalion View Post
The obvious assumption I get from reading this post is the one that states that with the new bolster system you will no longer get crushed. Hate to break it to you, but the probability of you and your team never getting crushed again because of stat equality is vanishingly small.
lol do you even read posts?



when did i say no one will ever get crushed? lol... the initial argument is that rewarding people for putting no work into their character is ridiculous.


also that by diminishing the difference in gear will strongly diminish the conflict and rising situations of having that difference. that i have become a better player by being pitted against all skill and gear level of characters. and i would rather be forced ot overcome someone with more gear than me with my skill than never having that opportunity... pvp in GW2 is boring for that reason, and the same thing will happen here.

Neoforcer's Avatar


Neoforcer
04.05.2013 , 05:00 PM | #25
All the bolster system is doing is lessening the gear gap between top Hardcore PVPers and new level 55 characters. There will not be a big of a gape between newbies and vets of PVP. Give the new characters a feel of being a little more on the level gear wise not that they will over come a hardcore pvp because of bolster. They sill will have a big challenge on there hands with hardcore PVPers regardless of bolster.

which mean you will still be driven to get better.

Trevalion's Avatar


Trevalion
04.05.2013 , 05:04 PM | #26
I can see that we will just have to agree to disagree.

Stat equality (at a baseline level ONLY mind you) has no real effect on how difficult a warzone is to win.

It is interesting that the converse of that, which is stat in-equality has a measurable effect on how difficult a warzone is to win is demonstrably true (simple example is TTK for an player with greater stats attacking a player with lesser stats is always less).

What I hear you saying is that you liked being the underdog because it forced you to learn to be better.

I think it is very reasonable to believe that you will still be forced to play better, to compete on a higher level, even with the new bolster. I dont understand why you think otherwise. Unless you possibly think that your already so good that you will win all your matches. If that were true you must already win all your matches. Do you win all your matches?

If you dont, why do you believe that the new bolster will significantly change how your matches turn out?

Maybe your saying that it's purely on a personal level. You don't think you will personally be challenged anymore now that people who haven't pvp'd much will be bolstered to a better baseline?

Trevalion's Avatar


Trevalion
04.05.2013 , 05:11 PM | #27
To me, the concept that playing an MMO for a bit of time == work is ridiculous.

I get what your saying though. Your bothered by the idea that someone who has spent less time playing pvp has more equal stats compared to someone who pvp's alot. Especially because that relationship doesnt exist the other way around. We cant jump into pve and be bolstered.. ***?

To me the answer is that PvP and PvE are entirely different kinds of games. PvP should be accessible at the entry level to everyone. Progression in PvP should always be about increasing your skill by overcoming challenges. The thing is, in PvP the challenge should come from fighting skilled players, not by some artificial gear gap.

PvE is a different story. It is trivial to conquer even the most skillfully scripted AI. An artificial gating system is necessary.

Completely different modes mang.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
04.05.2013 , 05:12 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by relaxpearl View Post
but learning by approximately even matches is absolutely false. then there is no difference in situations to teach you new tricks, new reactions, rotations. YOu're not being forced to try anything new because you're not actually being tried by unfair odds.

necessity brings about change... not mediocrity.
You are forced to try something new, because one has lost the last time, and the other feared the loss. The one who lost knows that he could have won, so he'll do what it's needed to win next time, and the one who won knows that he should be on guard for the next encounter as it wasn't an easy win.

Some people can give their harder when faced to unfair odds but some just give up. That is determined by how much masochist you are.
If a person is so moved by the will of winning, so that he doesn't give up even after an unfair loss, this guy won't stop giving his most because it was a "little loss".

If you can't learn when you win easily, but you can't either when the match is even, so when someone with already good abilities does improve ? With your logic : never.

ErosGyne's Avatar


ErosGyne
04.05.2013 , 05:34 PM | #29
If this new system works, finally PVP will be about skill, not gear
I can see now, some of so call Hardcore PVPer crying about this,(like the OP) but if you have the skill, this will change nothing, good players will still be good, the bad ones will still be bad, no amount of gear or expertise will change that, but atleat will bring more ppl to PVP

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
04.05.2013 , 05:39 PM | #30
I have no issue with the bolster from a competitive standpoint. I am a better than average PvPer, meaning when I run into a player I don't know, who has 19k health, I still expect to win, and usually do. But conversely, when I am running from point A-B, and I roll over some poor guy with 14k health, and kill him in 2-3 seconds, I actually feel kinda guilty. I figure anyone I can kill in 3 seconds in recruit gear, I can kill in 7-8 seconds in EWH. So if the bolster means I don't get to kill anyone in 3 seconds, I can live with that.

What irks me about it is fairness. If the bolster is going to make PvE gear 'almost' as good as top end PvP gear, then I want to be able to run Scum and Villainy HM in my top end PvP gear, which I don't know if I'll be able to do.

Give me a PvE bolster, and I'll call it good.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger
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