Watchman Sentinels, not snipers, should have the +30 levels of stealth detection

Bolster will be changing everything in 2.0, far as all "well in pts" opinions, let me tell you about it.

People didn't get any calculations from actual PvP with specs, reason for that was the pts was bugged from the new bolster system.

People was dueling each other and using test dummies to get math, what is wrong with that is that is not real PVP and isn't live.

You can beat something standing still all you want and try to get a idea, fact is in the hands of a person actually PvPing things change, damage changes, everything changes.

There is videos of a bunch of bugged crap going on in 2.0 PTS, here is one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC2VodalFbE

Reason I am applying this info is in this thread alone people are saying watchman isn't going to be any good because it was not good in a pts.

Soon as you see someone say pts, shoot it down.

PTS was not live!

Far as the topic at hand, sents don't need stealth detection, i do think healers do though. It would of been cool if they gave sage a force move where they can uncover stealth.

TK sage got buffed, and gunnery was viable on the PTS. Gunnery is actually very strong in 2.0. Gunnery only has to use 1 grav round, then demolition round, then high impact bolt. Gunnery is no longer required to spam 3 grav rounds in a row.

Without significant changes to the actual skill tree, fixed bolster and other bugs aren't gonna change the incredibly long ramp up time of watchman for full damage, nor change the lack of DoT protection the spec has. You don't need to see it live to know how big a problem either of those are in a PVP environment.

Your insistence on disregarding EVERYTHING from PTS just because SOME THINGS can be disregarded is just silly. Do I expect going naked to be better than wearing War Hero and Elite War Hero gear when it goes live? No I expect they'll fix it. Do I expect Watchman to be suddenly viable? No not really.

Not sure if this post is trolling but if it's not it's pretty comical. You play a class that gets:

--Predation -- increased movement speed for you and your buddies
--99% DR making you impossible to kill for three to five seconds
--AOE mezz
--A temporary stealth ability that causes your enemies to lose you as a target but does not break them out of combat.
--*smash**smash**smash**smash**smash**smash**smash** smash**smash*
--Autocrits for smash
--An easy rotation
--Leaps and all the other offensive tools of the class.

And on top of all that you want MORE utility in the form of stealth detection? Play another class for a while. Most people who start with other classes and then move to yours find it laughably easy.

Newsflash to Sents / Maras... you do not need every ability in the game
Thank you
Every other class in the game

What ramp up are you talking about, most classes have a build up on damage, and depending on that player and team comp it is in the hands of the player not the class.

I have seen terrible players play watchman, and then I have seen some that are darn right unstoppable when they have heals.

It has always been viable, it depends who is driving the car.

Some people have this train of thought that watchman isn't viable cause they can be cleansed, fact is there is ways to use a watchman sent where it really effective in a team comp build around it.

The added slow to watchman will make it even more of a lock down on a healer, I also don't see where the damage will be less for watchman, where is this math facts of it being less at?

Where is any proof that it can't work?

If people are assuming things from pts then that isn't good enough.

I also think people are biased vs watchman due to focus smash hitting so hard, and then combat being picked overall due to the skills it possesses.

I think in right hands watchman is the most dangerous spec in the game.

QFE
I've played marauder, assassin, guardian, Merc/commando and sniper to 50 and by far the most complete class for me has been mara followed by sin. Between the mobility, the defensive and offensive capabilities, the last thing it needs is another way to be arguably the best (if not, tied for second) overall class in the game. Try playing a Merc for a while. Having played and tested one in beta for 6 months before launch, it's been in need of loving for a long time. Snipers are good but are prone to stealth more than any other class in the game due to the cover system. While it looks like they are getting a little love in 2.0, it wouldn't surprise me if they stay stabilized over the next couple of combat passes.

Actually, to buff HiB you're still going to need to cast Grav Round three times in a row, and the changes didn't really address the problems with the class. It's no more ranked viable than it is on live. Will do slightly better in regs against players who can't properly use the new toys, will still get pretty easily shut down by people who know what they're doing. Meanwhile assault is dead and buried.


LOL ok. Let me know how many ranked teams start running watchman sents.

You're pretty delusional dude.

1) You lost all credibility when you said we would now have 10 percent damage on charge, when we already use guardian/jug dps mods/armoring in live for that bonus. I fail to believe you have ever even played this class, let alone watchman/annihilation. If you do and you are wearing the sentinel pvp set? Well you have just become the laughingstock of this board.

2) The reasons Watchman/annihilation will suck in pvp have nothing to do with a test dummy. No one ever questioned if the spec would be good in pve. This is the pvp forum.

3) We have already explained WHY this spec will be worse off in 2.0 in detail, and it has to do with a higher ramp up time, weaker dots, no dot protection, and many classes getting more escapes. We all said the spec was broken (for pvp) as soon as we saw the new talent trees. You counter this with rambling about test dummies...

4) Vigilance Jug will be so stupidly better then annihilation as non smash dps, that anyone playing watchman/annhilation should get the masochist title. Same goes with a marauder/sent playing rage/focus on anything but a Jug/guardian. 30 second cooldown on a smash crit, that is lowered with every ability, more str, dmg bonus to ravage, more force dmg (so they hit harder), can push snipers out of cover (new fotm). Oh yeah and they can aoe taunt and can separate a healer from guard with a push, and knock people off bridges and one shot them, AND aoe slow for no rage cost.

Oh yeah I forgot. When you see a sniper loading up an ambush on you? You can spell reflect ambush, the bomb and the follow through, and watch the new FOTM sniper damn near kill himself...

5) We have been completely pigeonholed into carnage in 2.0. Those who like playing the spec are keeping their sent/marauders. Those who don't? Have already made snipers/jugs. I have said it a million times, but the 80 percent group speed talent needs to go, or be changed to like 60-70 percent passive. Annihilation had it first and playing anything but annihilation in group pvp was stupid. Now playing anything but carnage/combat is stupid. The talent is simply too gamechanging. It is as bad as bubblestun (which is being removed from the game). Speccing anything else atm is simply stupid.

Summary. If you like combat/carnage on a sent/marauder? Make one, or keep yours. If you like the other 2 trees? Make a jug/guardian this weekend.

If raiding is your thing? Watchman/annihilation is an excellent spec. Then again? If you like raiding, you probably wouldn't be in the pvp forum to begin with.

Whats delusional is you and others thinks with a one track mind, and think there is only one traditional way to make a team comp in ranked.

Some of you need to think outside the box and mix it up, being biased about a spec don't make that spec less or more.

In the hands of a great player any spec can work, in a group of 8 good players most team comps can work.

Games don't get won by classes or specs, they get won by teamwork and skill.
You might think its stupid, I disagree on it not being viable in a team comp.

Your being biased about it.