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The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 03: Lord Vitiate vs. Darth Plagueis

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The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 03: Lord Vitiate vs. Darth Plagueis
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.03.2013 , 11:10 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
My wz queue popped so im just gonna add for now that Revan is probably the best in history ,wielder of both the Dark Side and the Light Side at the same time,because of the particularities of his being.
That is if you are referring to when he channeled both sides of the force to create ''burst of energy'' in the novel.
Fraid' Plageuis beats Revan... but that's just my opinion and likely subject to heavy debate. And concerning powerful bursts of energy, yes I was referring to that, but also to when he was hit with his own lightning.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.03.2013 , 11:20 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Fraid' Plageuis beats Revan... but that's just my opinion and likely subject to heavy debate.
Plagueis is certainly more powerful than Revan.

However, this thread is not about Revan (though it can easily be twisted that way). I would just like to advise everyone to keep Revan discussions solely to Revan vs. Vitiate for this thread. And also keep any sort of 'hero worship' for Revan aside. No need to derail this thread with the infamous Revan debates.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
04.03.2013 , 11:22 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Fraid' Plageuis beats Revan... but that's just my opinion and likely subject to heavy debate.
that's not the point.I didn't try to compare Revan and Plagueis.The point is that Plagueis would use exclusively the Dark Side.Which Vitiate is familiar with.
I think he was not familiar with a guy channeling both sides of the force in such a manner,that's why Revan managed to don't remember fully the details now, but he(vitiate) was sorta pushed back hell of a lot.

Darkondo's Avatar


Darkondo
04.03.2013 , 11:25 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Yes, it did slow them down. But only because they attempted to power through it. If Plagueis were caught in such a storm (which he may simply evade) I suspect he would draw his lightsabers to absorb the attack. We also have to consider the nature of the storm, after re-watching the JK Act 2 ending it seemed that Vitiate was actively prolonging the storm and when Braga and the JK charged him he realised further bolts of energy to push them back. So, in that sense, all Plagueis would have to do is unleashed a Force wave at Vitiate and knock him back or at least stagger him, the storm would peter out and Plagueis would engage him, preventing him from summoning another.

  1. Good point, but telekinetic attacks i.e. throwing objects at him, collapse the ceiling on him, are still on the table. I believe Plagueis would find a way to break the lock, that is if he decided not to dodge it instead. And if he does break the lock, he can respond immediately will an immensely powerful, charged attack.

  2. I'm not sure we can say that Plagueis arrogance extended to the extent your suggesting. There is little evidence that this is the case, while he would definitely be confident he'd also be very much aware of Vitiate's power simply through Force sense. An awareness reinforced when Vitiate starts calling down Force storms and summoning illusions etc. This would make him reassess his tactics and leave no room for error.
I did consider the storm, and he was only prolonging it for the wave of his hand. After that he proceeded to shoot lightning at the Hero of Tython and then a powerful burst of stronger lightning at him and Tol Braga, and while he was doing that the storm was still going on.

You assume that hed be able to use TK at Vitiate while hes using tutamis to try and contain Vitiate's lightning. This is highly unlikely as he would more than likely need his full focus on Tutamis else be overwhelmed. Remember he may be proficient in TK but he's not Darth Vader who could use TK to fling multiple objects (decent to huge sized objects mind you) at his opponents without the actual need to use his hands or even pause his saber attacks, also whom may be the greatest practictioner of TK pre-Luke era. Plagueis would actually need to use at least one of his hands to pull this off, which leaves him susceptible to Vitiate's lightning for however long, which puts his transpirator and his life at huge risk.

Good point, he may not be that arrogant but remember that he believed that he was the pinnacle of the Rule of Two, meaning he believed he was the best, most powerful sith whom ever lived. And by that logic, if he believed that he was the best which he did then when Vitiate shoots a stream of lightning at him, hes going to want to show Vitiate that he is the best and catch the lightning with tutamis.

When he gets overwhelmed unless he can use force bellow (which he may not even be able to do) I just dont see him getting out of this one since either the heat of the lightning could melt his transpirator, the change up from lightning to a force wave would more than likely subject him to lightning which may short out his transpirator, or say he does use TK, since hes not focusing all his energy on tutamis for that moment, hes leaving himself subject to enough lightning that it could possibly short out his transpirator, effectively killing him.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.03.2013 , 11:29 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
that's not the point.The point is that Plagueis would use exclusively the Dark Side.Which Vitiate is familiar with.
I think he was not familiar with a guy channeling both sides of the force in such a manner,that's why Revan managed to don't remember fully the details now, but he was sorta pushed back hell of a lot.
Yes, he was pushed back and the attack was certainly unexpected. But a Force based attack is a Force based attack no matter what strain. For example when he was knocked back by his own Sith lightning - can't get any more familiar than that. All that really matters is the strength of the attack, so if Plageuis can perform attacks of similar magnitude he can knock back or at the very least stagger/stun Vitiate. And given the fact that his Force waves were powerful enough to vaporise scores of opponents, I think he can pack that kinda punch.

Tutaminis can also be used to bolster his attacks, and give especially powerful counter strikes.

P.S. For the record, Force wave is an unanimous Force power, as if Tutaminis and Force speed. He isn't restricted the dark side only and has tricks up his sleeve that Vitiate may not be prepared for.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
04.03.2013 , 11:32 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
All that really matters is the strength of the attack, [/COLOR]
Of course strength matters, but mostly we have to agree to disagree here.Specially because we are not talking about pure light side,pure dark side,or neutral/universal atack or light side and dark side atack - two different spells at the same time.But an attack or ''force conjuration'' consisting of both dark side and light side in one.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.03.2013 , 11:45 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkondo View Post
I did consider the storm, and he was only prolonging it for the wave of his hand. After that he proceeded to shoot lightning at the Hero of Tython and then a powerful burst of stronger lightning at him and Tol Braga, and while he was doing that the storm was still going on.
Force lightning, Force storm, its more or less the same thing I expect it was all fuel to the fire. However I'd also assume he has some measure of, if not complete, control over the storm, so if he was incapacitated the storm would likely end. Nor did the storm encompass the entire area, only a strip in front of him. I'd expect he'd need additional time to conjure a larger storm, time Plagueis would not give him. In fact in the time it took for Vitiate to summon that storm Plagueis could already have knocked him back with a Force wave, ending it before it even began.

Also notice the storm had no effect on the Hero of Tython, who ran right threw it. Forcing Vitiate to throw lightning at him to push him back. Plagueis is arguably of similar caliber, or at least far stronger than Tol Braga, so I'd assume he would be able to do the same, or at least be able to resist the storm to a far better degree. Which, may I note, only immobilized the Knights, not the Hero of Tython and the Master.
Quote:
You assume that hed be able to use TK at Vitiate while hes using tutamis to try and contain Vitiate's lightning. This is highly unlikely as he would more than likely need his full focus on Tutamis else be overwhelmed. Remember he may be proficient in TK but he's not Darth Vader who could use TK to fling multiple objects (decent to huge sized objects mind you) at his opponents without the actual need to use his hands or even pause his saber attacks, also whom may be the greatest practictioner of TK pre-Luke era. Plagueis would actually need to use at least one of his hands to pull this off, which leaves him susceptible to Vitiate's lightning for however long, which puts his transpirator and his life at huge risk.
Is it? Perhaps... but lets remember Plagueis is extremely powerful and more powerful than Vader, he will also be empowered by Vitiate's lightning. Its only a matter of concentration and I'd assume, being a Muun and a scholar, he'd have a lot of that.
Quote:
Good point, he may not be that arrogant but remember that he believed that he was the pinnacle of the Rule of Two, meaning he believed he was the best, most powerful sith whom ever lived. And by that logic, if he believed that he was the best which he did then when Vitiate shoots a stream of lightning at him, hes going to want to show Vitiate that he is the best and catch the lightning with tutamis.

When he gets overwhelmed unless he can use force bellow (which he may not even be able to do) I just dont see him getting out of this one since either the heat of the lightning could melt his transpirator, the change up from lightning to a force wave would more than likely subject him to lightning which may short out his transpirator, or say he does use TK, since hes not focusing all his energy on tutamis for that moment, hes leaving himself subject to enough lightning that it could possibly short out his transpirator, effectively killing him.
Arrogance does not always equal stupidity, as I said Plageuis will quickly become aware of the magnitude of Vitiate's power and perhaps reconsider that assumption. Or at least play a safer game, especially since he is wearing a transpirator, with that in mind trying to catch Vitiate's lightning would be kinda dumb.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.03.2013 , 11:46 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
Of course strength matters, but mostly we have to agree to disagree here.Specially because we are not talking about pure light side,pure dark side,or neutral/universal atack or light side and dark side atack - two different spells at the same time.But an attack or ''force conjuration'' consisting of both dark side and light side in one.
True, but my argument still stands.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.03.2013 , 12:49 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
[/COLOR]Is it? Perhaps... but lets remember Plagueis is extremely powerful and more powerful than Vader.
What? Where was this stated?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.03.2013 , 01:08 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
What? Where was this stated?
Sorry I mean likely.
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