The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 03: Lord Vitiate vs. Darth Plagueis

Replace saber with Plagueis and times speed by 10. Result = dead Vitiate.

During the battle with Revan, Vitiate had a lot to focus on, he was distracted.

The fact that he did not react to the Exile's saber toss could partially be due to her having superb aim (thanks to precog). The Emperor doesn't need exceptional precog, just normal Jedi reflexes conferred by it.

Qui-Gon clearly states that the reason Anakin is able to perform seemingly miraculous feats during podracing is because he "sees things before they happen", he has Jedi reflexes thanks to that split-second precognition. This is manifest in lightsaber combat and when deflecting blaster bolts. The Jedi can anticipate where the strike is going to land.

Plagueis can't anticipate this, so in lightsaber combat he has to rely on overwhelming speed, so that even if fighting a Jedi, he can strike faster than they can guard, even if they were able to see where he was attacking. But Plagueis is not a noted duelist, he prefers to avoid lightsaber combat, probably because its extra risky for him.

Vitiate will not have any distractions in this fight. He'll be able to focus on Plagueis and target him precisely with a storm of objects, making it impossible for Plagueis to evade them, because he can see where Plagueis will evade to but Plagueis cannot anticipate where the objects will be thrown. He lacks "Jedi Reflexes" and instead has to rely on pure speed. While this can work to a degree in melee combat, it puts him at a huge disadvantage when his enemy can line up TK attacks ahead of time.

How? He only had to do one thing, hit Revan with his own lightsaber - there were no distractions. If anything there will be more distractions in this battle, for instance the the lightning blur rocketing towards him.

Quote:

The fact that he did not react to the Exile's saber toss could partially be due to her having superb aim (thanks to precog). The Emperor doesn't need exceptional precog, just normal Jedi reflexes conferred by it.

What has aim got to do with precog?

Quote:

Plagueis can't anticipate this, so in lightsaber combat he has to rely on overwhelming speed, so that even if fighting a Jedi, he can strike faster than they can guard, even if they were able to see where he was attacking. But Plagueis is not a noted duelist, he prefers to avoid lightsaber combat, probably because its extra risky for him.

And yet ironically, he engages in lightsaber combat almost always. The reason he disliked it was because he saw it as a waste of energy. His own perceptive abilities clearly make up for his lack of precog, else he would not have bested him in lightsaber combat.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel

Vitiate will not have any distractions in this fight. He'll be able to focus on Plagueis and target him precisely with a storm of objects, making it impossible for Plagueis to evade them, because he can see where Plagueis will evade to but Plagueis cannot anticipate where the objects will be thrown. He lacks "Jedi Reflexes" and instead has to rely on pure speed. While this can work to a degree in melee combat, it puts him at a huge disadvantage when his enemy can line up TK attacks ahead of time.

Again, it simply does not work like that. Jedi cannot predict the immediate future unless it affects them, Vitiate will not be able to predict where Plagueis will move to, only where Plagueis will strike. Yet Plagueis will be moving to fast for him to use precog effectively anyway, by the time he reacts the opportunity has passed. And again, by the time he realizes Plagueis lack of precog skills, and adapts accordingly, Plagueis will already be upon him. In this sense he won't take such factors into account, he'll be forced to rely purely on instinct. And his instincts will not tell him to do what you suggest, but to batter him away with lightning volleys.

However, there is an angle from which this can be argued. If Plagueis charges Vitiate at extreme speeds, it will become difficult for him to perceive any incoming attacks. So if Vitiate chooses to attack with a flurry of lightning, or a telekinetic storm, he cannot rely on precog to change course and will likely be hit. However this deficiency can be overcome by stunning Vitiate first, or simply moving too fast for him to react. Either way, I do not believe the space is large enough for Plagueis to be charging Vitiate, or for Vitiate to be sending volleys a Plagueis. Attack Plagueis with TK from all sides perhaps, but Force waves will counter that effectively. Basically, Plagueis can get on top of him very easily and very quickly.

EDIT: And again, it is highly unlikely Vitiate will use telekinesis in this battle. It is clear that he favored Force lightning.

as far as the precog thing goes what he is refering to is not vitiate's precog abilities but rather plagueis's lack their of some one like vit (or most people in general) are capable of predicting (or more likely forcing) a movement on an opponent if he knows plagueis is going to dodge he can get a guess of where he is going to dodge to and thus know where to throw the next object and from what direction to get him to move again the way vit wants him to. Plagueis's lack of precog will mean he is acting on instict and with pure speed and that instict means it be more likely for vit to force him exactly where he wants him to go and hit him with an attack he didn't see coming in time do to lack of precog.

This being said i don't know if even with that vit will be able to trap plagueis and the one reason why is plagueis isnt dumb i dont believe he wouldn't notice vit trying to reposition him to try to trap him i would think he has enough foresight (not force power just tactical know how) to not fall for such an obvious trap.

I am disputing the assumption that Vitiate's precognition will allow him to predict where Plageuis will move, and if it does, whether Vitiate will be able to react in time to act on that information. Given the fact the Plagueis will be moving at lightning speeds I highly doubt he will. But lets say he manages, lets say he sends a bolt of lightning at Plageuis, he dodges and moves straight into another, with no time to dodge he is forced to catch it, something he is perfectly capable of doing. This will keep happening until Plagueis knocks him down and moves in for the kill. This is likely what will happen, Plagueis will batter away Vitiate's defenses with the Force and then engage him with the lightsaber. Despite being disdain towards them he used them quite a lot.

Except that Meetra Surik is a wound in the force and that he wouldnt be able to sense her, all he would feel is a presense dead to the force which he would not suspect to be within a person.

You presume too much.The fact that he is Kel Dor is just a cosmetic detail from a game's pov.He might as well be any race you can imagine and the effect of Vitiate's lightning is gonna be the same.The jedi strike team is supposed to go unconscious.You and Aurbere are over thinking something absolutely insignificant.

Regarding Vitiate vs Plagueis.- Why do i have to remind you people that he consumed a planet with a hundred sith lords on it and spend more than a thousand years practically doing nothing but researching the dark side+ he was a hell of a powerful guy even before the Great Hyperspace War.Plagueis,a very powerful sith lord is a little more powerful than a Baras or Marr type of council member at the most. Even if i go in a movie characters fanboy mode,and say he is 10 times more powerful than a very good Council Member,he is *still* nothing next to Vitiate.The only way he can defeat him is countering what Vitiate does perfectly,and basically outsmarting him.

@Baniboybling ,The jedi knight protagonist defeated the Voice,not the original.And he is also one of the most powerful jedi ever.

Ah yes, I remember now.

It wouldn't be significant if we were not discussing the effects of Vitiate's Force storm on breathing apparatus. But we are, so it is. It can also be backed up with canon Force abilities, namely Force resistance.
This would be an impressive feat if it had been his own, but it was not. The feat he performed, which may I add had been performed by Nihilus with no aid and instantly, required a huge amount of preparation and the combined strength of over 8000 Sith Lords to pull it off, a ritual that took a week to complete. Simply put, he was no were near powerful enough to do it by himself. Is it impressive he managed to dominate the minds of 8000 Sith? Partly, but not to the extent you may imagine because:

1. These 8000 Sith were likely not very powerful, not only would the most powerful have been destroyed during the war but to spread such dark side power over 8000 other beings is, as in the words of Bane, to heavily dilute it.
   
   
2. Vitiate used Sith magic to dominate them, something he no doubt would have spent much time preparing and something, when unleashed, is extremely difficult to defend against. Once the spell is cast - its pretty much game over unless you are exceptionally powerful.

So yeah, he can use some fancy rituals - not going to be of much help in a battle of this kind. Ultimately he is a scholar, and the true extent of his powers can only be brought to bear through great amounts of preparation.

And you severely underestimate Plagueis' power. He was the near pinnacle of the Rule of Two, the product of millennia or preparation and accumulation of power. Second only to his apprentice, Darth Sidious, who later became the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history. Let's also remember that Vititate's power was more or less equal to the combined strength of Meetra, Revan & Scourge. Why? Because Scourge had visions of the Emperor's defeat as well as there own failure, we will never know what the true outcome of that battle would have been, but we do know the Emperor could very well have lost.

However I am not saying he is more powerful than Vitiate, only that he possesses the right skills to exploit his weaknesses and destroy him. Namely, to avoid his attacks and strike him where he's weak.

Actually, only Tol Braga and the Hero of Tython managed to resist the initial storm the other 3 were incapacitated. And even so, it still slowed down them both immensely to where Vitiate could throw a burst of lightning with no issue. Again, Vitiate wasnt trying to kill any of the jedi strike team, only subdue and either enslave them with mind control, or break them to his cause.

1. Without force bellow a change up would be necessary as he still needs to move his hands back to actually project a force wave. There is a possibility that he could move his hands back to where he is still maintaining his tutamis, however this can also put him at an even GREATER risk and heres why.
- Remember in the Revan novel, while Revan was containing Vitiate's lightning even when he was holding it and it wasnt leaking out, the sheer heat from Vitiate's lightning was melting Revan's mask into his face. The same could happen to Plagueis if held too long or it got too close to his face, and if that respirator gets damaged then Plagueis loses.

2. Remember, both Plagueis and Vitiate like to play god, meaning they both believe that they are gods and that there is nothing in the universe more powerful then they are. I see this as Plagueis's downfall, since he believes that he cannot be defeated even in a force battle, which he would prefer to wage anyway. Since Plagueis believes himself to be god, and that there is no way that he can be defeated, he sees lightning from Vitiate as simply something he can catch and absorb, which in his mind there is absolutely no way that he is going to be overwhelmed by it since he is god.

With this line of thinking, he proceeds to use tutamis to catch Vitiate's lightning. When he does this one of 3 things can happen.
- The heat from Vitiate's lightning even if he absorbs it all could melt his transpirator, thus killing him regardless if the need to change up is there or if he can use force bellow
- If he does change up, he could still be susceptible to lightning which could damage his transpirator same result
- He can use force bellow, which he may not even be able to use due to his transpirator in the 1st place

I just dont see Plagueis getting out of an initial lightning confrontation which would happen due to both Vitiate's and Plagueis's belief that they are all powerful.