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[pvp] hybrid healers in 2.0


unK_'s Avatar


unK_
03.28.2013 , 07:56 PM | #1
Hello,

I currently play "hated" bubblestun spec, just checked out new ability trees for sorcerer and I wonder if playing hybrid after 2.0 hits will make any sense.

Here is the build I came up with (26/18/2): http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20

Now, it seems like it may be viable (since bubble mez will provide escape route, which does wonders) and won't cripple healing much, also will allow for using consumption without decreasing force regen. Higher abilities in corruption tree seem useless - great, they very slightly buff a skill I'll be able to use every 3 minutes. I think I'll pass. I also don't see much use of revivication in pvp as people are moving a lot and my experience is that usually nobody stands in a shiny healing circle, with exception maybe being side turrets in CW and to some extent NC. Speed buff for Innervate would be nice though, but oh well.

What are your thoughts?

PS. As a side note, it seems they nerfed the **** out of force barrier - no stun, no cooldown reduction and -10% absorption -_-

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
03.29.2013 , 08:19 AM | #2
If you are seriously trying to be a hybrid (ok healing, ok dps, but not great at anything) than this spec could work in regular warzones. I think you will have force issues since you only have a 50% chance of proccing force surge, so you are completely dependent on critting on force attacks when used to proc Lightning Effusion (and crit got destroyed for 2.0). You're missing the most significant advantages at the top of the Corruption tree including 6% bonus healing and faster ticks on your best heal (especially for PvP). Getting an automatic second Force Speed after barrier will give you the best utility for huttball and make you a viable ball carrier for a time. And, whatever it's faults, if you're going that high in Corruption, Revivification is a great ability if you know how to use it.

You also miss out on a free 2% crit at the bottom of the tree (crit will be at a premium) and don't have Dark Resilience which will be important if you are using consumption in PvP. I'm also not sure why you are taking Chain Shock as Shock is probably the least cost effective ability that a sorc has. If you are gonna run a spec like this I would prefer taking Subversion and a point in Convection as they at least synergize with the DPS abilities you should be using and help with force management.
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Xeraz's Avatar


Xeraz
03.29.2013 , 08:26 AM | #3
I will still be specing into "mez bubble" come 2.0 also. Link below-

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20

With that said, this build is still only viable as a HEALER. If you are trying to be a "true hybrid" and dps and heal you will not perform well. Even with the stun bubble nerf this build will have increased survivalbility with the new Static Barrier. Additionally, it'll actually provide significantly better longevity than a full healing build since you can use your Force Surge exclusively for consumption and not have to worry about the force heavy revivification.
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unK_'s Avatar


unK_
03.29.2013 , 09:55 AM | #4
Yeah, I'm not dpsing much (sometimes not at all), I focus on healing. When I usually dps it's for taking down people with little health that are about to run somewhere safe or that for some weird reason are not being attacked, hence the improved shock. But now I'm not sure if Subversion could be better. Oh well, guess we'll see.

Something like that will probably work better than the first attempt: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20

Full Force Surge is better than having Lightning Storm, and without it Chain Lighting is useless. Not sure about Corrupted Barrier vs Dark Resillience, for now I don't use Consumption at all until I go out of force (which doesn't happen often, thankfully, since then it's a mess), but with Force Surge instead of spamming Consumption after you're out of force and then using self-heal you can apply it each time you have FS proc and easily compensate 4% by Static Barrier heal and casting Resurgence on yourself (well, at least in theory).

Anyway, thanks for the input.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
03.29.2013 , 11:11 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by unK_ View Post
Yeah, I'm not dpsing much (sometimes not at all), I focus on healing. When I usually dps it's for taking down people with little health that are about to run somewhere safe or that for some weird reason are not being attacked, hence the improved shock. But now I'm not sure if Subversion could be better. Oh well, guess we'll see.

Something like that will probably work better than the first attempt: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20

Full Force Surge is better than having Lightning Storm, and without it Chain Lighting is useless. Not sure about Corrupted Barrier vs Dark Resillience, for now I don't use Consumption at all until I go out of force (which doesn't happen often, thankfully, since then it's a mess), but with Force Surge instead of spamming Consumption after you're out of force and then using self-heal you can apply it each time you have FS proc and easily compensate 4% by Static Barrier heal and casting Resurgence on yourself (well, at least in theory).

Anyway, thanks for the input.
I like this build quite a bit more than your original one. I'm hesitant to even consider a hybrid healer build in 2.0 though for a few reasons:

1) Bubble is caster only now (obvious)
2) Electric Bindings is no longer possibly to get in hyrbid (HUGE loss)
3) The abilities you spec into that are helpful detract from your healing uptime (have to cast Affliction and Lightning Strike fairly religiously to get Barrage to proc and keep force regen up)
4) There are just too many heal buffs left out from the Corruption tree

I'm thinking this for PvP. It will depend on if the Overload heal is worthwhile (I haven't tested it myself) or if the heals on Static Barrier and Force Barrier end up being worth it. If neither of those is viable, then Lucidity and possibly Reverse Corruptions will get those points. Just make sure to get Force Mending procced before using Innervate (to make sure you get crits for Force Surge since crit will be worthless) and Revification (to reduce cost by 30%) and force shouldn't be a problem. Since Force Surge can stack now, you can potentially consume multiple times without a problem, which is why having Dark Resilience will be key to ensuring you aren't totally killing yourself with Consumption.
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Xeraz's Avatar


Xeraz
04.03.2013 , 01:06 AM | #6
I just don't see why Revivification is worth it in pvp. On live I currently play as Stun Bubble and the ONLY ways I ever seem to die is due to being bursted OR running oom and having to consumption myself to death.

With the changes done we can now still have mez bubble. Often overlooked but, this change actually increases Sorc survivability. Now we can still have our own Mez Bubble without having to worry about the melee dpsers using their own stun bubbles on us. But now we ALSO have Force Barrier and Polarity Shift and even more survivalbility. I still these changes in 2.0 making Sorc a real pain to take down. Secondly, the only other reason I usually die in warzones is because of running oom. With Force Surge we have substantial better force management.

Yes, we won't have some extra healing by going full heals but I just don't see the pvp justification for it. Maybe some of those abilities might pad the meters, like Corrupted Barrier and Force Suffusion but those aren't likely to make the difference between someone living or dying.

In short, besides Voidstar I just don't see the full healing spec outperforming the Mez Bubble in 2.0. Finally to dispute each point directly.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post

1) Bubble is caster only now (obvious)
2) Electric Bindings is no longer possibly to get in hyrbid (HUGE loss)
3) The abilities you spec into that are helpful detract from your healing uptime (have to cast Affliction and Lightning Strike fairly religiously to get Barrage to proc and keep force regen up)
4) There are just too many heal buffs left out from the Corruption tree
1. As mentioned this is a nerf to Sorc group utility but a BUFF to Sorc survivalbility.
2. Easily outdone by Force Barrier and Polarity Shift
3. You still have access to Force Surge in the Corruption Tree. In fact, you'll be using those Force Surge charges exclusively on Consumption and not on the high mp Revivification. Efficiency will be higher in the hybrid.
4. Besides "fluff" talents the only real loses are 6% bonus Healing, 18% on innervate and Revivification itself. I just don't feel these will abilities will "make the difference" and save a life. I'd rather have the personal defense of Mez Bubble while will allow me to create distance and heal more often.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
04.03.2013 , 09:59 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Xeraz View Post
1. As mentioned this is a nerf to Sorc group utility but a BUFF to Sorc survivalbility.
2. Easily outdone by Force Barrier and Polarity Shift
3. You still have access to Force Surge in the Corruption Tree. In fact, you'll be using those Force Surge charges exclusively on Consumption and not on the high mp Revivification. Efficiency will be higher in the hybrid.
4. Besides "fluff" talents the only real loses are 6% bonus Healing, 18% on innervate and Revivification itself. I just don't feel these will abilities will "make the difference" and save a life. I'd rather have the personal defense of Mez Bubble while will allow me to create distance and heal more often.
1) This is a GIANT nerf to group utility and a NERF to sorc survivability as well. It will be a mez and it will fill more resolve than before.
2) Force Barrier and Polarity Shift are given to everyone. Part of the utility of going into lightning included a root on Overload that you no longer get. This point does not refute mine.
3) I see the smart sorcs using force surge as a balance. I haven't tested myself, but I believe consumption uses one charge and puddle uses all available charges. Using them interchangeably will probably work best, but if the game allows you to use two charges for consumption and the last one on puddle that will be ideal. I don't know if 3 charges are required or simply all that is there.
4) Every talent you take in lightning (outside of what would otherwise be taken in full corruption) is totally useless as a healer outside of the bubble (nerfed into the ground) for survivability. The fact that it kept others alive as well as yourself, AOE root on KB, and extra force regen options were what made the loss of points in corruption acceptable. You now get barely anything out of the bubble (heck, you get nothing if you DoTed them already), you can't get root, and the force regen is the only thing there (which always took you away from healing to spam lightning strike or other abilites).
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Mookind's Avatar


Mookind
04.03.2013 , 10:21 AM | #8
Instant doughnut and you want to go bubble spec after the giant nerf to it?

Why?

Xeraz's Avatar


Xeraz
04.03.2013 , 06:54 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
1) This is a GIANT nerf to group utility and a NERF to sorc survivability as well. It will be a mez and it will fill more resolve than before.
The "game" of living all comes down to what you have versus what they have. Currently, every competitive game will have Stun Bubbles on both teams. This means that the Sorc will have a stun bubble to keep people off of him BUT the people trying to get on you will also have a stun bubble. This allows for the abusive mechanics of melee dpsers clicking off the bubble and using it's low resolve CC, thrown into their dps/stun rotation, to burst us.

Come 2.0, this is no longer true. Now The Sorc healer will still have a Mez Bubble to protect himself while the enemy players attacking him will NO LONGER have the Stun Bubble to use against him. As mentioned earlier, this will result in higher survivalbility for the Sorc BUT less overall group utility.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
2) Force Barrier and Polarity Shift are given to everyone. Part of the utility of going into lightning included a root on Overload that you no longer get. This point does not refute mine.
Just because everyone has it doesn't negate my point. With the increased survivalbility from Mez Bubble AND these two abilities.. the loss of Electric Bindings is negligible. What's even worse is losing Stun Bubbles and Electric Binding BOTH and only having the two abilities as a substitute.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
3) I see the smart sorcs using force surge as a balance. I haven't tested myself, but I believe consumption uses one charge and puddle uses all available charges. Using them interchangeably will probably work best, but if the game allows you to use two charges for consumption and the last one on puddle that will be ideal. I don't know if 3 charges are required or simply all that is there.
If, you were to spec full Corruption then it would require you use Force Surge charges interchangeable. The real question is.. is having Revivification worth the lost of the amazing defense Mez Bubble provides, especially considering Revivification using up so much force and can't be used often. (Situational- the key exception would be Voidstar for obvious reasons)
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
4) Every talent you take in lightning (outside of what would otherwise be taken in full corruption) is totally useless as a healer outside of the bubble (nerfed into the ground) for survivability. The fact that it kept others alive as well as yourself, AOE root on KB, and extra force regen options were what made the loss of points in corruption acceptable. You now get barely anything out of the bubble (heck, you get nothing if you DoTed them already), you can't get root, and the force regen is the only thing there (which always took you away from healing to spam lightning strike or other abilites).
Anyone trying to play the hybrid to be 50% dps and 50% healing or any other type of hybrid is making a terrible mistake. However, in pvp Burst is king. Having the ability to add in a nice little burst dps never hurts you team. With a quick Lightning Strike and(now buffed) Shock you can throw out a large amount of quick burst damage to potentially overcome an enemy. The only reason you would put anything into Lightning Barrage is for the same affect. Quick, assisted burst. (Aka- not a dps class) In pvp, these abilities are not useless. Although, they are situational.

Now, even though not worthless the extra dps provided does not compare to the 18% buff to Innervate and 6% Bonus healing. However, Mez Bubble is soo good at allowing you to stay alive that it'll allow you to heal much more freely resulting in stronger healing support.
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Xeraz's Avatar


Xeraz
04.03.2013 , 07:11 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Mookind View Post
Instant doughnut and you want to go bubble spec after the giant nerf to it?

Why?
Because in pvp, Defensive Cooldowns make AOE healing that requires you to stand in place look silly.
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