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The Empire - Evil, but Without Hypocrisy?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Empire - Evil, but Without Hypocrisy?

dawngazer's Avatar


dawngazer
03.27.2013 , 12:32 AM | #1
I'm curious as to everyone else's opinion. I've just had this debate someone with differing conclusions. One alleges that the Empire is murderous and genocidal, yes, but without hypocrisy. The other camp alleges that hypocrisy is inherent in the system. Are either right, is there something else missing, what do you think?

I myself am in the latter camp. It seems hard to reconcile the dogma that all races but Pureblood and human are inferior, yet the Sith, highest of all beings according to the state and Sith dogma, contain aliens in their ranks.

Spetulhu's Avatar


Spetulhu
03.27.2013 , 02:29 AM | #2
I don't think it's hypocrisy as much as simply lacking a focused ideology. Everyone has to make up his own idea about what the Emperor would want, or pick a side from multiple different ideas about what the Sith Empire should be. A succesful leader will get support for his ideas, a failure will mean people abandon that path until next time.

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
03.27.2013 , 04:55 AM | #3
There is Hypocrisy, it's an empire that hates aliens, then allows alien slaves to train as Sith Inquisitors, that is hypocritical. It uses horrific tactics, then complains when those tactics are used on it (especially in the agent's story). It frequently violates the Treaty of Corusant, but whines when the Republic does it. So yes, it is hypocritical.

About the only thing it doesn't complain about is enemies using the Darkside of the Force.
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QuiDonJorn's Avatar


QuiDonJorn
03.27.2013 , 05:30 AM | #4
Yep, the Empire is pretty lame.

zzoorrzz's Avatar


zzoorrzz
03.27.2013 , 05:40 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexDougherty View Post
There is Hypocrisy, it's an empire that hates aliens, then allows alien slaves to train as Sith Inquisitors, that is hypocritical. It uses horrific tactics, then complains when those tactics are used on it (especially in the agent's story). It frequently violates the Treaty of Corusant, but whines when the Republic does it. So yes, it is hypocritical.

About the only thing it doesn't complain about is enemies using the Darkside of the Force.
Of course we do all of that, because it boosts our chance to win the war. And that's the only thing that matters.

WickedDjinn's Avatar


WickedDjinn
03.28.2013 , 08:56 AM | #6
It's not really about evil or hypocrisy. The Empires more complicated then that.

The Empire has two distinct layers.

The foundation of the Empire, is the idea that the end justifies the means. The Empire is structured, orderly and highly efficient, a well oiled machine. It is a often cruel, uncaring machine... But it's a machine that *works*. The people of the Empire are not evil, persay.

Then you have the second layer, the Sith leadership. The Sith manage to screw up just about everything effective about the Empire with their power plays and in-fighting. Sith usually are evil or at least amoral, but more importantly they tend to be forces of chaos. That doesn't sit well with the highly ordered nature of imperial society.

You can't talk about the Empire as if those two sides are the same thing. And while you can pick out specific instances of hypocrisy from the Imps, they aren't that way as a whole. The Republic, on the other hand, has a lot of political corruption festering at its core that they try to hide behind a wall of good intentions.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
03.28.2013 , 03:23 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by WickedDjinn View Post
The Republic, on the other hand, has a lot of political corruption festering at its core that they try to hide behind a wall of good intentions.
All democracies open themselves up to corruption. The Republic, as a whole, stands as a plural and open society that cares for its citizens the best it can. The Republic has some corruption, but it also has systems to deal with that corruption.

It is directly analogous to crime (corruption is usually a subset of criminal activity anyway). Every society has its criminals, but that is no indictment on the system as a whole. Rather it should be seen as a strength when there is a justice system able to deal with this conduct.
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Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
03.29.2013 , 07:36 AM | #8
Every group of people chose a social contract that fits them better.Imperials have chosen to lose some of their freedoms,for security and order.It is a system similar to fascism.

The Republic is similar to modern democracy.It can be corrupt ,broken and highly ineffective or it can be the best and a paragon of virtue,depends on who is able to take charge.

The Empire on the other hand and the very nature of its society makes sure only the best and most competent are in charge,but very often amoral or at least amoral in the standard sense.

In the republic some gangster can shoot you on Coruscant and dump you in a container ,and no1 will ever know.In the Empire even if you *think* something that is out of line,you will be screwed up by the authorities in an instant as an enemy of the state.

Regarding Hypocrisy or at least hypocrisy that is hard to see,due to the nature of its political system obviously its more in abundance in the Republic.

Callaron's Avatar


Callaron
03.29.2013 , 08:04 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexDougherty View Post
It frequently violates the Treaty of Corusant, but whines when the Republic does it. So yes, it is hypocritical.
It's called propaganda, and the Republic does its fair share of it too - like the guys on Balmorra (Empire side), who are supposedly "rogue" agents.
As for letting aliens train to become Sith, the Empire is desperate to fill the ranks of the Sith so that they can match the Jedi's far more openminded approach, otherwise they'll lose by sheer numbers - no matter how many troopers and droids they employ.
I also firmly believe that those running the Empire believe that those aliens will never aspire to much anyway, at best they'll be mediocre Sith - fodder to throw at the Jedi, they view them as inferior so they can't fathom that teaching them the ways of the Sith -might- actually one day mean that the alien "filth" can threaten their own powerbase.
It's also why they will get whooped by the Republic in the end, because the majority of the Empire's rulers are xenophobic idiots - and anyone who tries to change that will be disposed of.
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Emanrahc's Avatar


Emanrahc
03.29.2013 , 04:53 PM | #10
I'm not sure "hating aliens, but still allowing aliens to work their way up the ranks, if they are good enough" is particularly hypocritical.

The bigger hypocricy of the Empire is that while they think they are better then the Republic because they have sacrificed freedom for order, stability and prevention of crime, they actually still have just as much infighting, corruption and dirty dealing as the Republic. And perpetrate massive attocities against their own people. And have all the mad Sith running around tryingto set themselves up as alternative rulers, or starting cults, or digging up goodness-knows-what horrors from some god-forsaken tomb.



Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
The Empire on the other hand and the very nature of its society makes sure only the best and most competent are in charge,but very often amoral or at least amoral in the standard sense.
If Imperial Intelligence were running the Empire, maybe. As soon as the Sith get involved, then lol no.