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PTS Closing? What happened to Merc/Mando changes Eric Musco??????

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
PTS Closing? What happened to Merc/Mando changes Eric Musco??????
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Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
03.27.2013 , 04:12 PM | #161
Quote: Originally Posted by PifferPuff View Post
I too have tried to explain something like this in an obscure PTS forum post on how demanding that the devs re-balance classes and other stuff in the same go as 2.0 is unfair. And that that comes later - and as a separate (future) patch that will take care of those issues then and there.
Oh what complete and utter BALLS.

We've been waiting for balance improvements since 1.2. We all expected improvements in 1.4, then 1.6, then DEFINITELY in 1.7, then hell, that would be silly, they're redoing the classes - it MUST be in 2.0!

Balls. PvP class balance has gotten consistently worse as the game has aged. That is down to *incompetence*. So sure, go all happy clappy for BW and tell us to wind our necks in, and wait for 2.1, 2.2 or 2.3. Whatever.
Zacharïah - Commando / Chasso, Aargh - Merc
The Twinkletoes Legacy
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2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
03.27.2013 , 04:21 PM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Oh what complete and utter BALLS.

We've been waiting for balance improvements since 1.2. We all expected improvements in 1.4, then 1.6, then DEFINITELY in 1.7, then hell, that would be silly, they're redoing the classes - it MUST be in 2.0!

Balls. PvP class balance has gotten consistently worse as the game has aged. That is down to *incompetence*. So sure, go all happy clappy for BW and tell us to wind our necks in, and wait for 2.1, 2.2 or 2.3. Whatever.
This is, unfortunately, the problem. I've cut quite some slack to Bioware, as I've been subscribed and playing since early access. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any serious attempt at class balancing after 1.2 except for a few classes. I was willing to bet, when they announced that the level cap raise, that all further class balancing would be completely deferred to the expansion. I was right about that, unfortunately they still failed to assess most of our problems, some of which have been around since launch.

I'm quite tired of hearing people saying "be patient, they will do something". They had PLENTY of time. They've been working on the expansion ALONE since summer, with some of the preliminary work dating back up to LAUNCH, as per interviews. They've had time.

At this point I'm afraid it can only be either incompetence, or a will to devote resources to other classes, for whatever reason. If whining is what'll take to get some attention then I'll whine, at this point I'm out of options: reason and patience have long failed us.
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SpaniardInfinity's Avatar


SpaniardInfinity
03.27.2013 , 05:04 PM | #163
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
how exactly would more energy regen increase Merc Healer performance? you could reduce the heat cost of all Merc heals to 0, and the spec would still be the 3rd best in PvP. in PvE it would probably help a bit, but Merc heals is not as handicapped in PvE as it is in PvP.

the biggest issues with Merc heals in PvP is the same problem that Arsenal has: vulnerability to interrupts and lack of mobility. a single competent DPSer can pretty much shutdown a Merc Healer. having more heat is not going to make you heal on the move or under pressure better.
I know you were exaggerating, but this isn't completely true. Ammo/heat management is without question the single biggest restriction on Merc/Mando healers mechanically. If you don't have your ammo/heat cooldowns and aren't near a Supercharge, you are pretty much dead in the water. Smugglers at least have Pugnacity for a small increase, and Sages can get Force back at the cost of health. Supercharge does help but it has a lot of set-up time (and can be prolonged by enemy interruptions) for a small return that won't help you if you aren't good at managing ammo/heat in the first place.

Not saying it's the biggest problem I'd fix, though. I'm okay with the class being hard to manage resource wise if and only if its reward was worth the effort, but it's not. (The reverse would also be fair, that is the resource is easy to manage but your reward is somewhat less since there is less effort, but that isn't the case either).

ON TOPIC: Here's to hoping for changes in 2.1. Or for experience to prove me otherwise (Combat Medic is notoriously gear-dependent for PvP and PvE; good gear/build/skill is mandatory for being competitive).
Aux "Spaniard" Wargarde (Rank 2400+ Combat Medic) | Reighner the Relentless (Conqueror Bodyguard)
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idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
03.27.2013 , 05:20 PM | #164
Quote: Originally Posted by Uggen View Post
Nothing accomplishes anything. Productive posts have been made, and that didn't achieve anything either...
We get that you're anti-bioware. Let's move on.
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Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
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Uggen's Avatar


Uggen
03.27.2013 , 07:26 PM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
We get that you're anti-bioware. Let's move on.
What is wrong with you? Show me one post where I have said I am anti-Bioware? Just because I say there is a big problem regarding the class balance in this game, and even though I am stating that the root to that problem OBVIOUSLY is the class-balance developers not doing their job, It doesn't mean I hate Bioware? I love Bioware and this game as a whole. But we're not on a forum to tell them they are doing a super job at all times. They get credit when they have done a good job, and in this case they haven't. And when it comes to this specific AC, they have done a BAD, BAD job. And constructive feedback has been hailed at them since 1.2, but they have ignored it. So, constructive feedback does not work. Therefore I post a message saying I am deeply unsatisfied with their job on the mando/merc.
Uggen-Commando
Tomb of Freedon Nadd.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
03.27.2013 , 07:34 PM | #166
I think if anything, this farce speaks volumes about BW's real thoughts on the long term viability of SWTOR. 1 single dev handling all of class balance (badly) and punting issues down the road for many months at a time is not the behaviour of a studio with confidence.

I was under the impression that the cartel shop was making a lot of money and turning around the subscriber situation, but this is more like a game in its death throes - no matter what the 'state of the game' fluff is saying.
Zacharïah - Commando / Chasso, Aargh - Merc
The Twinkletoes Legacy
Zachariah's Merc/Mando PvP Guides
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
03.27.2013 , 08:08 PM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
I think if anything, this farce speaks volumes about BW's real thoughts on the long term viability of SWTOR. 1 single dev handling all of class balance (badly) and punting issues down the road for many months at a time is not the behaviour of a studio with confidence.

I was under the impression that the cartel shop was making a lot of money and turning around the subscriber situation, but this is more like a game in its death throes - no matter what the 'state of the game' fluff is saying.
gonna have to agree with this. it was recently that a dev said the cartel network was bringing in cash flow so they could do "new and exciting" things, wasnt it? id be willing to bet a pretty penny that AP didnt start out as the only dev involved with class balance, but budget cuts obviously made him the only one.

which is innately a flawed system; if you only have one single viewpoint of how each class plays against other classes, its going to develop bias. whether its personal preference, skill, w/e, it will not represent a truly balanced way of examining class performances and then making tweaks based on that.

AP, my advice to you is that you need to stop thinking that you are the only person designing, testing, and implementing class changes. you have literally thousands of people *paying* to offer their opinions on class balance. i suggest you figure out which members of the community frequently offer reliable feedback, and engage those people. whether you are comfortable admitting it or not, we know the game better than you. im not saying that to be a ****, im saying that because a) its true, and b) we want to use our knowledge to improve the game.

thats my advice. take it or leave it. if youre smart, youll take it.
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JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
03.27.2013 , 08:47 PM | #168
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
youve never played in RWZ. which makes your opinion on Merc/Mando balance in any spec hold a lot less water.

Merc/Mando is in an acceptable place for regs. the vast majority of the time you will face no more than 4 good players and 4 (or more) muppets. A good Merc/Mando will dominate regs in any spec. That is not the issue here.
True to a certain extent. And again, I completely agree that Mercs need some love for RWZs.

But ranked players queue in regular matches, too, and I highly doubt *every* single DPS who's ever targeted me one on one was a crap player.

We need survivability, we need mobility, we need to be able to match the numbers the other two healing ACs are putting up. Agreed. But if you die one on one when you have cooldowns available, it's possible you're doing something wrong. I'm not saying I'd be able to kill the DPS, but I can certainly hold him to a stalemate long enough for help.

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
03.27.2013 , 09:34 PM | #169
Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
I'm not saying I'd be able to kill the DPS, but I can certainly hold him to a stalemate long enough for help.
Implying the majority of DPS help their healers?

They need to buff players, not classes. Give 'em a guide to L2P because half of them don't know how.
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Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
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Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
03.27.2013 , 10:23 PM | #170
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
I think if anything, this farce speaks volumes about BW's real thoughts on the long term viability of SWTOR. 1 single dev handling all of class balance (badly) and punting issues down the road for many months at a time is not the behaviour of a studio with confidence.

I was under the impression that the cartel shop was making a lot of money and turning around the subscriber situation, but this is more like a game in its death throes - no matter what the 'state of the game' fluff is saying.
Gonna have to agree with this.

Something this big...this many variables going into class matchups...it's just not a one-person design job. It's just not possible to play each spec of each AC frequently enough to get a reliable idea of where class balance is at. I can probably speak intelligently (but not close to perfectly) from the perspective of 2 sorc ACs, 2 powertech ACs, 1 Op AC and 1 marauder AC. But if you asked me to fix vengeance juggs? Or any of the 4 assassin specs? I'd have no idea where to start beyond being able to spot obviously bad ideas.

Either Peckinpaugh is a maniacal control freak or, more likely, he doesn't have the staff to do what he needs to do...which bodes very badly for the game.

It's a shame. Really like this game, balance problems notwithstanding.