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Why isn't there a WZ quitters cooldown?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why isn't there a WZ quitters cooldown?
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Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
03.27.2013 , 07:32 AM | #261
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSaberMaster View Post
What this guy said.
quoting yourself and agreeing with the quote.
You 'like' your own posts on facebook too?

Quote: Originally Posted by shefflad View Post
Why not reverse the side speeders so the attacking team as them. This will make it more likely that the side nodes can be recapped . As it is now once a team as both side nodes it nearly impossible to retake them with them having the side speeders and the attackers having to run from the central one.
did you even read what you wrote? can't even reply to that..

Quote: Originally Posted by schooch View Post
This is why there should not be a quitter debuff.....http://imgur.com/6fHBMxL

/endthread
lol (can be joke, as he has 54 valor)
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
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Kubernetic's Avatar


Kubernetic
03.27.2013 , 08:24 AM | #262
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
Hey Gang,

I would just like to pop in here and offer some of our perspective on this topic. A lot of good points on both sides have been thrown around here, and extending our current vote kick penalty (or something similar to it) to players who opt to leave the Warzone is definitely something that we discuss. However, at this time we feel like the negative consequences of putting in such a system (such as hurting players who crash out of a Warzone) don't overcome the potential gain.
First off, let me thank you for at least responding.

Personally, as a player who almost exclusively PVPs in this game with my 4 50+ toons and various sub-50s, this Warzone Quitter issue is the most serious issue in this game.

Every time an enemy bombs a door in Voidstar, or caps two nodes in Novare or Civil War, or scores 2 points in Huttball, when I see 2-4 or more players immediately start quitting the warzone, it makes me want to cancel my subscription. And I must say, the urge to cancel gets greater and greater every time it happens.

It needs to be addressed SOMEHOW. Ignoring it is not an option unless you're ready to lose more players.

Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
With healthy Warzone queues, players will backfill into a game relatively quickly (side note: we are receptive to the complaints that you can get back filled into a really terrible position, that is something I want to try to address), and even if we prevented people from requeueing that doesn't necessarily stop them from leaving or going AFK at a point.
This is a mistaken premise. Even with healthy warzone queues, if 2 or 3 people quit at once (as often happens with this overpowered gearing system you have developed and allowed to continue for 15 months) the amount of LOAD TIME necessary to get into these warzones often makes the discrepancy of 8 v 5 far too difficult to overcome. By the time your new players backfill, you could already have lost the caps you had, or watched the other team steamroll to a couple of scores in Huttball, etc.

What's more, when the backfill players show up, see that they're in someone else's broken, abandoned warzone, and THEY quit, then the problem just exacerbates itself.

Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
All of that being said, I do think the Civil War Warzone specifically has some issues that really shines a bright light on reasons people would leave. Inherently, CW is the Warzone that has the hardest time for a team to come from behind and that leads to a higher percentage of players to give up once they feel like the game is lost (and that feeling can occur very early into a game). My team and I are working to try to come with some solutions to this CW issue specifically, to see if we can improve the general Warzone itself and fight some of this problem at the root cause instead of the effect.
Again, your idea that Civil War is the only place this needs help is not very comforting. This quitter problem is pervasive across EVERY WARZONE with the exception of Ancient Hypergates. It seems Hypergates is the only warzone where one team cannot steamroll over another so quickly that it disheartens players. Although it does still happen even in Hypergates on rare occasions, in my experience.

Any warzone that includes an early open "WIN" for the other team, including Civil War, Voidstar (first door bomb), Novare Coast (triple cap), and Huttball (an early leaping or several leaping scores) ALL suffer this problem.

You and your team need to address the quitters. This is not a problem with one warzone. This is a problem with the fact that there is absolutely zero penalty to picking and choosing what warzones you want to be in, and you are leaving all of the rest of us in an unfortunate position at their mercy.

SOMETHING needs to be done across the board, and there are a few serious suggestions I hope you and your team will listen to and consider going forward. If these have been mentioned already, I apologize and give credit to whomever else offered them as well.

NEEDED SOLUTIONS

A) Get rid of the animations in front of Voidstar and Novare Coast. Get rid of ANY kind of a "Press Any Key to Continue" trap that artificially stops a player from loading directly into the warzone after they say "Yes" to the warzone prompt when your queue pops.

If you honestly think that backfilling is supposed to help the quitter situation, then please optimize the backfills.

B) When players quit on one team, a randomized process needs to select a corresponding member on the other team with a specific set of priorities as follows, and then lock that player into some kind of a "mind trap" or "freeze beam" that immobilizes them until the needed backfilled player has actually entered the warzone:
  1. Freeze an opposing team member of the same advanced class/mirror and exact spec. Example: If a Republic Sage heal spec quits a warzone, immediately freeze a Sage heal spec or Sorcerer heal spec on the opposing team.
  2. Freeze the last player to enter the warzone on the opposing team. (This can serve as an incentive to take queue pops as early as possible to insure your continued place in a match. I'm not sure if this goes first or not, but I'm placing it here for now to try to give as much leeway as possible to the original teams entering the match, if they stick with it.)
  3. Freeze an enemy team member of a different advanced class/mirror that has the same spec. If an Imperial Sorcerer healer quits, and there are no Republic Sage healers on the other side, freeze a Scoundrel heal spec or Commando heal spec.
  4. Freeze an opposing member of the same advanced class/mirror. If a Repulbic Sage healer quits, and there are no healers on the opposing side, then freeze one of the Imperial Sorcerer DPS specs.
  5. Freeze an opposing team member of approximately the same expertise or health level or closest to it.
  • Avoid freezing any players who are carrying the Huttball, or currently in a casting phase for capturing a node, or are a single defender at a node.
  • If at all possible, avoid freezing any teammate who is currently engaged in combat. Instead cycle to another player according to the filters and freeze them instead.
  • For any player frozen for purposes of awaiting an opposing backfill, assign some set of medals or comms (perhaps 2 medals or +25 comms in addition to their final tally) each time it happens) to the frozen players so that they are compensated for being frozen and have a reason for remaining through the freeze and continuing the match. If you quit, no additional comms or medals.)

(This should be done in both directions. The examples used are strictly for demonstrating the process. Any team member on any side quitting a warzone should result in a freeze beam locking an opposing team member down, regardless of whether it is an opposing faction match, and regardless of which faction member quit, and even if it is a same-faction match. The overall point is to maintain a 1v1 parity in the match.)

C) Track ratios of how many warzones a player has completed versus how many times they have quit a match over the last 10-20 matches that the player has ENTERED, not completed. If the ratio exceeds a certain threshhold, mark that player with a special title or icon (that the player cannot remove and cannot hide that is visible to other members of their operations team) that denotes that they are a risk of leaving the warzone, so that the other team members can immediately see this in the pre-game holding pen and begin the Kick From Warzone process.

If you aren't going to handle the problem, at least respect your players (who are paying your salaries) enough to give us the tools to handle the problem ourselves. The only reason we cannot handle it at the moment is because you are intentionally allowing these quitters to hide among us.

_____

I think with these options, apart from C, we can eliminate what I consider to be an overly cautious attitude toward people who "disconnect" normally. Yes, some players disconnect because of lag issues or other happenings, but this doesn't change the fact that the quitters are ruining your PVP game. So if we absolutely have to avoid ever possibly affronting any of these people, even though they are also affecting warzone performance, then stick with A and B and be done with it.

But you need to address the QUITTER PROBLEM, please. Do not fall into the trap of thinking it is a Civil War problem. As I said, Voidstar and Novare and Huttball all have the same vulnerabilities in that it is possible to open with a strategy that immediately leads to opposing team members quitting the warzone.

Thank you, and I really hope you listen to these suggestions. I'm hoping the addition of 50+ Bolster in 2.0 will fix some of this, but I have a sinking feeling that it is not going to matter much in regards to quitters...
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danielearley's Avatar


danielearley
03.27.2013 , 08:30 AM | #263
Quote: Originally Posted by Kubernetic View Post
First off, let me thank you for at least responding.

Every time an enemy bombs a door in Voidstar, or caps two nodes in Novare or Civil War, or scores 2 points in Huttball, when I see 2-4 or more players immediately start quitting the warzone, it makes me want to cancel my subscription. And I must say, the urge to cancel gets greater and greater every time it happens.
never had 4 people quit at the same time, only once had 2 people. I PVP alot of the time. exaggeration does not help prove your point!!!!!

Kubernetic's Avatar


Kubernetic
03.27.2013 , 08:41 AM | #264
Quote: Originally Posted by danielearley View Post
never had 4 people quit at the same time, only once had 2 people. I PVP alot of the time. exaggeration does not help prove your point!!!!!
Then you're lucky. And it might not be 4 all at once... but once 2-3 quit (and I've seen that quite frequently), the imbalance in players usually leads to events which lead to #4 and #5 quitting, etc.

Sometimes it isn't noticeable unless you're watching, because by the time #4 and #5 quit, players have already begun to backfill the first 2-3 spots (even though they aren't in the warzone yet because they're still stuck loading).

I guess I'm just becoming hyper-aware of it now because its happening so often and seriously making me rethink my spending decisions in regards to this game.
Tekay —— En-ki —— Tékay —— Hassle —— Jaksen
Explorer (80%) • Killer (53%) • Socializer (47%) • Achiever (20%)
Excited Star Citizen — But ready to resubscribe when and if...

Dawncatcher's Avatar


Dawncatcher
03.27.2013 , 08:54 AM | #265
Ugh.

This thread is terrible. Both the people arguing against for mostly focusing on how they want to quit because the other side is a premade, or too good, or whatever and the people arguing for... well, I understand where you're coming from, but please understand the people you're arguing with *do not* represent a large portion of quitters. At all. I actually agree with a lot of you that you learn nothing from quitting just because the going gets tough. But not to the point of taking it out on people who are just doing what they have to do to be a good father or mother or husband or wife or brother or sister or whatever.

There are many people who enjoy PvP over PvE precisely because it doesn't require a 4 hour commitment like ops and it's easy to drop quickly if something comes up in real life. Not everyone is a live-alone bachelor with no responsibilities to family nor friends nor a boss who expects them to be on-call even during non-business hours.

Fathers blowing off steam after work, mothers (whether they be working mothers or housewives), other family people make up a huge portion of Bioware's income. People who work to support their families, and have the income to buy entertainment and the stress level to need it.

But family's need attention, and things pop up out of the blue. (Same thing if you're a fireman or have to be on-call even when off work for other reasons.) Family (or other real life stuff) is more important than some silly online game. A debuff might not be a totally bad idea, but it should never be so much that a family person feels like the fact that they actually have a life outside the internet means that they can't PvP. One or two minutes. Five minutes tops. And maybe with an exception for re-joining the match you just left (in case you disconnected... this happened to me once. Backfilled into my own slot. Thought I didn't get any medals, but apparently the chart remembered the ones I earned pre-disconnect even though they didn't show up on my character buffs.) 1-2 minutes at least is probably time family people will be spending dealing with whatever real life issue popped up anyway, and thus only a nuisance to the people who wanted to quit just because they didn't like that match but wanted to immediately re-queue for another. Even then, there really shouldn't be any penalties if you quit within the first minute or two of the match when there's still plenty of time for backfillers to make a difference. And even then, only a nuisance enough to make them reconsider quitting within the last 30 seconds of the match, when a backfiller will have 0 chance of getting so much as a kill-blow medal, and not so much that they feel the need to go semi-AFK in a fight they aren't interested in just to avoid the debuff.

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
03.27.2013 , 08:55 AM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by RougeBeaver View Post
There does exist sore losers who only want easy guaranteed wins they don't need to work for.

However, most everyone will tell you the same thing; if you want people to stay, stop sucking (not you specifically, but everyone as a whole.) This is how things are, if people stopped being goons and played better we'd see far less intentional quitting. It's not right to force people to humiliate themselves in a meaningless battle where their teammates are running about like beheaded chickens.

Even still, there'd be work arounds such as jumping on an alt. And if you suggest such a "quitter debuff" be a global thing then...sorry, no thanks.
Nothing worth while comes for free, it has to be earned to have any value to it. People need to realize that 50% of the people in a WZ @ the end are going to lose. Nothing can be done to change this fact. Either you play the WZ or you lose. If you leave early, then you don't deserve to be able to continue to play WZs, just as if you leave a FP you don't deserve to continue playing FPs. There needs to be some consequence for leaving a WZ. Also there already is an Auto AFK status, just shorten the time it takes to enter it, at least in a WZ, and make entering it in a WZ auto-kick you from a WZ.
My propsed changes to Loot Rules.
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.27.2013 , 08:57 AM | #267
Quote: Originally Posted by Choffware View Post
Totally missing the point again Bioware... Totally missing the point. Players getting disconnected can be protected by OH I DON'T know... lets say COMMON SENSE PROGRAMING! . All you have to do is invoke the penalty on any player that quits the warzone by using his mouse and keyboard.
Wouldn't "common sense" also suggest that I'll just pull my Ethernet plug if this is the case?
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SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
03.27.2013 , 09:03 AM | #268
Quote: Originally Posted by Dawncatcher View Post
Ugh.

This thread is terrible. Both the people arguing against for mostly focusing on how they want to quit because the other side is a premade, or too good, or whatever and the people arguing for... well, I understand where you're coming from, but please understand the people you're arguing with *do not* represent a large portion of quitters. At all. I actually agree with a lot of you that you learn nothing from quitting just because the going gets tough. But not to the point of taking it out on people who are just doing what they have to do to be a good father or mother or husband or wife or brother or sister or whatever.

There are many people who enjoy PvP over PvE precisely because it doesn't require a 4 hour commitment like ops and it's easy to drop quickly if something comes up in real life. Not everyone is a live-alone bachelor with no responsibilities to family nor friends nor a boss who expects them to be on-call even during non-business hours.

Fathers blowing off steam after work, mothers (whether they be working mothers or housewives), other family people make up a huge portion of Bioware's income. People who work to support their families, and have the income to buy entertainment and the stress level to need it.

But family's need attention, and things pop up out of the blue. (Same thing if you're a fireman or have to be on-call even when off work for other reasons.) Family (or other real life stuff) is more important than some silly online game. A debuff might not be a totally bad idea, but it should never be so much that a family person feels like the fact that they actually have a life outside the internet means that they can't PvP. One or two minutes. Five minutes tops. And maybe with an exception for re-joining the match you just left (in case you disconnected... this happened to me once. Backfilled into my own slot. Thought I didn't get any medals, but apparently the chart remembered the ones I earned pre-disconnect even though they didn't show up on my character buffs.) 1-2 minutes at least is probably time family people will be spending dealing with whatever real life issue popped up anyway, and thus only a nuisance to the people who wanted to quit just because they didn't like that match but wanted to immediately re-queue for another. Even then, there really shouldn't be any penalties if you quit within the first minute or two of the match when there's still plenty of time for backfillers to make a difference. And even then, only a nuisance enough to make them reconsider quitting within the last 30 seconds of the match, when a backfiller will have 0 chance of getting so much as a kill-blow medal, and not so much that they feel the need to go semi-AFK in a fight they aren't interested in just to avoid the debuff.
No. There needs to be some kind of consequence for leaving a WZ. I am a father of three, and I wouldn't care about a debuff if my family needed me. Other games have these debuffs, WOW, RIFT, heck just about every other MMO has these debuffs. If you leave a PVP match early then you are gimping your team and therefore need to have some kind of consequence for that action. 'Nuff said.
My propsed changes to Loot Rules.
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SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
03.27.2013 , 09:05 AM | #269
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Wouldn't "common sense" also suggest that I'll just pull my Ethernet plug if this is the case?
Exactly which is why, sorry to say it, but leaving and disconnecting should get the same treatment. The debuff should also count down while you are disconnected so that the people who legitimately get disconnected aren't suffering as harshly as the people who are leaving through other means.
My propsed changes to Loot Rules.
My Twitch channel, both a link and the address so you can choose how you visit it. twitch.tv/otawo

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
03.27.2013 , 09:06 AM | #270
Quote: Originally Posted by Caeliux View Post
I feel the same way you do, I do think the only reason no punishment is fear of repercussion of losing MORE subs which means less money for Bioware.

That is the bottom line, but it still by no reason makes a good enough excuse not to implement it.
I'd rather let people quit than have them AFK on the defender node. If anything, I'd only allow 1-2 backfills and if more than that many people drop then it should stop adding people in and let the match die. There's about 20 things that need to be done to prevent people from leaving but stretching on a lop sided match to the end is just painful for everyone else who hasn't quit and is really a lose-lose situation for everyone on that team (and an easy guaranteed medal farm for the enemy).