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PTS Closing? What happened to Merc/Mando changes Eric Musco??????

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PTS Closing? What happened to Merc/Mando changes Eric Musco??????
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APeckenpaugh's Avatar


APeckenpaugh
03.25.2013 , 04:23 PM | #31 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by Daemonson View Post
Here is a question, will that 25% damage boost to HSM be in addition to the current buff we get, or just the same thing. Because if it is the same thing we have now this essentially does absolutely nothing for arsenal/gunnery
No, it doesn't work like that. Prior to 2.0, you need 5 stacks of Heat Signature in order for your HSM to deal +25% damage. After 2.0, you will need only 1 Heat Signature to achieve the same +25% effect. Also, Tracer Missile only ever applies the 1 Heat Signature. Heat Signature no longer stacks, it reduces armor by 20% all at once, and it lasts 45 seconds.

What this change does is remove the "build up" at the start of a new fight. There are still "build up" mechanics in the Arsenal tree, but none that affects the TM and HSM relationship. The effect is marginalized by longer fights, but it should be noticeably more awesome in short fights (soloing, non-boss fights, and PVPing).

Also, I triple checked this, but HSM does about 16% more damage in 2.0 than it did prior to 2.0 (from a coefficient of 2.39 to a coefficient of 2.77). I believe this change went undocumented. In any case, HSM won't be getting any stronger than it already is, which is very, very strong by the way.
Austin Peckenpaugh
Class Designer

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
03.25.2013 , 04:25 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
It looks like it is replacing. Currently Demo round receives 5% extra damage per grav vortex, up to 5 stacks (25%). This will be replacd with a flat 25% for one vortex (no stacking).

So a buff in that it reaches max damage quicker, but no extra damage in total.
That's a pretty significant buff for PvP. It means that you're able to hit your burst in a single GCD, which gives you a chance to do real, appreciable damage very quickly. GR -> DR will be a fully-proced Demo Round and all of the damage that entails. Especially considering that DR can be casted on the run, this is a pretty significant change. If you're really in a pressed situation, you could do: GR -> DR -> (TO) GR -> GR -> HiB. Everything after the first Grav Round is mobile, and the damage dealt is quite significant (somewhat less than what an appropriately-speced Sniper can do in the same time period if their cooldowns are up, but only when they sit down and cast).

Additionally, this means that an interrupt on GR will be less debilitating, since the armor debuff won't need as much watching (CB does better damage anyway).

It's starting to look to me more and more like commandos might be viable in PvP in the right hands. Certainly much harder to play and position than a gunslinger, and maybe not viable in ranked, but things seem like they're in a vastly better position than they are on live.
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Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
03.25.2013 , 04:25 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Well sure, but there's failures like what gunnery faced, and failures like what assault faced. One of those is bigger failure than the other.
Yeah, but being positive about what we got is kinda like giving a restaurant a good review for not curling off a steaming turd in your beef bourguignon.

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
It's starting to look to me more and more like commandos might be viable in PvP in the right hands. Certainly much harder to play and position than a gunslinger, and maybe not viable in ranked, but things seem like they're in a vastly better position than they are on live.
Assuming a crit (hah) It's the difference between 7.7k and 8.75k in (and only in) those situations when you could only get 1 grav round off as opposed to 3. If that were all it took to make us ranked viable, we'd have been in a much better position. Right now, snipers/slingers are miles ahead of where we are.
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
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2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
03.25.2013 , 04:30 PM | #34 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Just a heads up, I am going to be moving this thread to the Classes forum so the conversation can continue since we will be wiping the PTS forum tomorrow morning.

Thanks!

(it will have a redirect until then)
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Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
03.25.2013 , 04:31 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
I definitely have a team that supports me, brainstorms with me, and tests with me, but I do all of the design, implementation, and balance for all of the classes by myself. It is a daunting task.

The following changes are going out in 2.0 and won't be making it onto PTS.

Bounty Hunter
Mercenary
-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

Arsenal:
-Tracer Missile: The Heat Signature applied by Tracer Missile now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Heat Signature effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.
-Heatseeker Missiles: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Heat Signature. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Heat Signature effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Tracer Missile.
-Light 'Em Up: No longer affects Heat Signatures applied by Tracer Missile.

Trooper
Commando
-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

Gunnery:
-Grav Round: The Gravity Vortex applied by Grav Round now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Gravity Vortex effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.
-Demolition Round: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Gravity Vortex. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Gravity Vortex effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Grav Round.
-Gravity Surge: No longer affects Gravity Vortices applied by Grav Round.
not surprsing it's daunting... but I really would like to find out what help you're giving dps sages/sorcs -- in particular Tk/lightning which still remains really poor for pvp due to it's stationary stand and cast style and balance/madness who were totally reliant on the snare to work and now everyone can break it - no extra line of defense given.

please, there is a long discussion in particular on the "no pushback" thread here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=611692 and many others. lots of good feedback, some complaints (don't get offended pls, it just shows the passion), and some really good ideas too. We don't want the caster sage/sorc to get protection by becoming as armored as a trooper/bH or guardian/jugg or have it in heals like a healing spec or grant it cover like agents/smugglers. - our main problem is that we don't have sufficient uptime on our abilities for the TK/lightning spec to be effective enough - and for the balance/madness with the snare a lot less effective now, we need other forms of defense.

for TK/lightning we were discussing possibilities of allowing an occasional short period of casting while moving and a big knockback added to turbulence/thundering blast and the main target only of TK wave/chain lightning - these possibly activating on a shared resource like charges of something you can consume to either give you a short time per charge of casting on the move or consume to give turb/TB and TK wave/CL a big knockback (tune an appropriate cooldown). WE also thought ideas like Cloud mind making the sage/sorc untargettable for a few secs would be really helpful, and a backflip to gain distance another option that would be really cool. Please check out the topic, it is a read, but it would give you an insight to how these guys are feeling and what their experience on PTS so far is showing.

I in particular feel that TK/Lightning sorcs need ways they can use their abilities more - because at the moment they get closed down too fast, drop too quick, and locked down hardly unable to do anything unless they are hiding before being spotted, - I like the fact it has an acitvation time, that's it style, so rather htan grant more instant abiliteis, i'd prefer a period where it can move and cast instead and maybe throw in a second knockback and a backflip so it can get a few more hits in before they force leap or roll back in range and just pulverise you tiny armored toon.

And they need a finisher too for both pvp and pvE.. but we been waiting sooo long on something to imporve dps sage/sorc in pvp and a finisher for both, but nothing.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
03.25.2013 , 04:31 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Just a heads up, I am going to be moving this thread to the Classes forum so the conversation can continue since we will be wiping the PTS forum tomorrow morning.

Thanks!

(it will have a redirect until then)
Oh good. No devs will have to see it then.
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
03.25.2013 , 04:44 PM | #37
I'm somewhat upset... These changes, while fortunately not a nerf in any way I can think of (beside the possibility of DR/HSM not being fast enough on target to kill somebody/interrupt somebody in time), fail to address the main issue that emerged from previous testing, which is heat/ammo management. Changing the relative talent to give a straight +ammo regen like most classes get would have probably been enough to satisfy most people, while still not being OP.

I won't touch the dps issue, as people keep saying that the numbers are closer together than they were before. I have a hard time believing that, seeing how long it took to get decent commando/merc dps compared to other classes. if nothing else, it proves that the class now has a steeper learning curve than other classes.

OTOH, while the electro net fix was due, it was a bug fix really, this new patch still fails to give mercs/commandos a significant role in pvp, relegated to being "playable" at best in random wzs. Better than 1.2 onward I guess, but still not really satisfying...

Ah well, let's hope that with the big issue of the expansion out of the way, more dev time will be spent on actual, ongoing class balancing.
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mandoforlife's Avatar


mandoforlife
03.25.2013 , 04:48 PM | #38
Well, I'm just happy it's not a nerf. It sounds like we're going to be able to have a pretty quick burst, since we can fire off one TM then hit them with a fully buffed HSM. I like the sound of that. I don't think it will make us viable for ranked though.

P.S.: Love that little change to Electro Net. It was much needed.
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cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
03.25.2013 , 05:08 PM | #39
Yay! Communication

Changes look great.
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ebado's Avatar


ebado
03.25.2013 , 05:20 PM | #40
Even if your hope was more from a PvP perspective, the signature and HSM change will make a difference in PvP burst where every GCD counts. No, you didn't get god mode, but that's a nice fix.
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