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The most easy way to determine if the tank is a bad/dumb one

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
The most easy way to determine if the tank is a bad/dumb one

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
03.23.2013 , 11:33 PM | #171
Quote: Originally Posted by sumuji View Post
The most easy way to determine if DPS doesn't play tanks. They assume I inspect every piece of gear on every member and then further assume that they kill stuff in the proper order and not bang on the strongest stuff while they healer takes the brunt of the lower stuff.

It's easier to guard the healer initially and then move it around accordingly. In a PUG that's the best way to roll because nobody knows who you are. And playing a healer as well I can certainly confirm that I end up being the focus of too many mobs a lot of times in a PUG HM.
^ this exactly.

DinesenDK's Avatar


DinesenDK
03.24.2013 , 11:04 AM | #172
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Either you came to the conclusion by yourself, or (more likely) somebody told you to do so and it seemed like a good idea. And without understanding it, you adopted this rule. And your groups do fine, so "it works"
I can accept you think I've adopted this, rather from thinking myself, I can live with that. I've played MMOs since Galaxies, and have been around about a handfull of games, and believe I've come to understand how Threat works, so I don't understand why you try to twist my words into something else when I already told you why I put Guard on the Healer.

I thought this threat was about OP going mad over not getting the attention he think he is entitled to because of his outstanding DPS... My bad.

Again, its a group based game, we should all learn to play our roles. DPS is often considered to be the easiest part, but im sure that we both can agree on that it is no easier, then Tanking mobs, or Healing the group members, regardless of who has guard.

With a small chance of repeating myself, my overall point was simply that with some communication the PUGS would succes much more often, and people wouldn't be tearing of eachothers heads during FPs = overall better experience while doing PUGs.
Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Fauhn lvl 55 Warrior - Juggernaut.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.24.2013 , 01:48 PM | #173
Quote: Originally Posted by DinesenDK View Post
I can accept you think I've adopted this, rather from thinking myself, I can live with that. I've played MMOs since Galaxies, and have been around about a handfull of games, and believe I've come to understand how Threat works, so I don't understand why you try to twist my words into something else when I already told you why I put Guard on the Healer.

...
Hmm. My assumption came of this part of your first post:
Quote: Originally Posted by DinesenDK View Post
I put Guard on the healer every single time, for that simple reason that with out heals we all die alot faster. And Yes I should probably learn to play.
I inferred that "I should probably learn to play" meant you had inexperience.

Let me as you something, just so I understand. You say, "I put Guard on the healer every single time, for that simple reason that without heals we all die a lot faster"

Assuming that "without heals" means the healer is dying, how is putting Guard on the healer preventing the healer from dying, in your experience?

DinesenDK's Avatar


DinesenDK
03.24.2013 , 04:43 PM | #174
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Assuming that "without heals" means the healer is dying, how is putting Guard on the healer preventing the healer from dying, in your experience?
Assuming is never good, however sorry for misleading or my bad writing, and I my sarcasme that not alwaysshows that well as text.

When you're assuming the ovious, then ofcause you're right. The healer dies even with guard on him. But in my experience he dies slower, and that helps the group to stay alive longer, which I find way more important to finish a FP then letting a DPS have it and he gets in a few more bashes in before we all are destroyed.
Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Fauhn lvl 55 Warrior - Juggernaut.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
03.25.2013 , 01:01 AM | #175
I don't know how to put this in simpler terms but - do not guard the healer.

Marb's Avatar


Marb
03.25.2013 , 02:43 AM | #176
Quote: Originally Posted by Sydexlic View Post
To elaborate. Nightmare Kephess can potentially gib a tank at close to full hp with one of his attacks. It's one of the few encounters were a strong emphasis should be made on tank effective health.

Effective health being a function of health pool after guaranteed mitigation is applied. Basically, Damage reduction modifying your max health. No matter your avoidance, unless the sum of which is 100%, it will fail at some time.

The attack in question is a series of 3 large hits. Each individual hit is not going to pressure a tanks health, but if by chance (a fairly low chance), all 3 attacks are not shielded, parried or missed, it can do almost the entire tanks health pool in damage. A tank in full avoidance gear, taking no high endurance options at all, will need to be at near full health to survive such an occurrence. A tank that has prioritised health a little more, even if it's just 2-3k more health, will survive a failed string of avoided attacks with health to spare. EH is all about planning for the worst case scenario.

Otherwise no, for any other content than tanks attempting NiM Kephess in EC, go balls out avoidance, EH is largely irrelevant. For those who do Nim Kephess, in particular timed runs with strongly emphasised repeatability of the encounter, you do definitely want to keep effective health as a gearing priority.
This is probably more relevant for a shadow/assassin considering a kinetic ward will get evaporated almost immediately, causing said low hp shadow to hilariously implode into hamburger. Add to that, the fact that the sin is the only tank that gets any real value out of endurance beyond a deeper health pool for healer reaction time. In addition to having the highest damage and threat ceiling out of all the tanks anyway, increasing endurance can be more attractive for them at higher gear tiers (61/63's), as endurance essentially becomes a mitigation stat at a certain point due to the way variant B mods are itemised.

In contrast, the other 2 tank classes gain little from sacrificing main stat for endurance beyond aiding in healer reaction time, which can be picked up by skilled healers. For powertechs and guardians, the passive nature of their mitigation and a higher base armour value *should* be enough for both healers to pick up a lower health pool. But for progression, having a modest health buffer (still using high mitigation mods/enhancements) is generally advisable for most tanks, or at least, tanks should gear to the capabilities of their operation group and the strengths of their class as a general rule.

Or tell your healers that they are poo, raid drama is fun yo.
Harbinger

Punchy's Avatar


Punchy
03.25.2013 , 03:06 AM | #177
Quote: Originally Posted by Marb View Post
This is probably more relevant for a shadow/assassin considering a kinetic ward will get evaporated almost immediately, causing said low hp shadow to hilariously implode into meat chunks. Add to that, the fact that the sin is the only tank that gets any real value out of endurance beyond a deeper health pool for healer reaction time. In addition to having the highest damage and threat ceiling out of all the tanks anyway, increasing endurance can be more attractive for them at higher gear tiers (61/63's). In contrast, the other 2 tank classes gain little from sacrificing main stat for endurance.

For powertechs and guardians, the higher base armour and passive nature of their mitigation *should* be enough for both healers to pick up a lower health pool, considering the tank has the exclusive attention of both healers, and pre-emptive healing being required anyway in post gift phase. But for progression, having a modest health buffer (still using high mitigation mods/enhancements) is generally advisable for most tanks, or at least, tanks should gear to the capabilities of their operation group and the strengths of their class as a general rule.

Or tell your healers that they are poo, raid drama is fun yo.
:O When did you get here? Go back to zoning out during bomber phases, sir.

This basically sums it up though. The main reason why I, as a Vanguard tank, don't go for a healthpool buffer is because I have Aurojiin as a healer, and he has a masochistic personality. Seeing a tank drop from full health to 20% makes him giddy. That, and my way of displaying epeen as a tank is through having over 1.9k main stat.
Where's my taunt?

Marb's Avatar


Marb
03.25.2013 , 03:10 AM | #178
Quote: Originally Posted by Punchy View Post
:O When did you get here? Go back to zoning out during bomber phases, sir.
I looked at the video again! I was actually using rapid shots! totally different.
Harbinger

Punchy's Avatar


Punchy
03.25.2013 , 03:17 AM | #179
Quote: Originally Posted by Marb View Post
I looked at the video again! I was actually using rapid shots! totally different.
Hah. Well, that is an improvement.
Where's my taunt?