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Are you prepared for 2.0? You still have 2 weeks to roll a sniper/slinger

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Are you prepared for 2.0? You still have 2 weeks to roll a sniper/slinger

Riggz's Avatar


Riggz
03.24.2013 , 10:18 AM | #41
My sniper just hit 50
Urdnought Level 55 Operative
Urdonught Level 55 Scoundrel
<GRIM DETERMINATION>
<INFAMOUS>

MarkXXIV's Avatar


MarkXXIV
03.24.2013 , 10:24 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it.

In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro.

The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR.
bioware needs this guy on their staff.

Tiaa's Avatar


Tiaa
03.24.2013 , 12:26 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it.

In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro.

The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR.
For the TLDR people:

Bioware has no clue what they are doing.

Laforet's Avatar


Laforet
03.24.2013 , 12:29 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it.

In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro.

The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR.
Freaking amazing post.
Believer - Seer - Fatman - RETIRED

Some people once said i was arrogant. The state of sorc healing throught RotHC taught me humility. Bioware made me a better person.

Uber_the_Goober's Avatar


Uber_the_Goober
03.24.2013 , 12:38 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it.

In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro.

The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR.
Re-posting this entire quote millions of times, maybe BEaware will recognize the flaws and fix them.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
03.24.2013 , 01:59 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Re-posting this entire quote millions of times, maybe BEaware will recognize the flaws and fix them.
Macro has been reposting that for many, many months. I'm sure BW has seen it.

Some of us (myself included) think he's probably at least partially right, some don't. Either way, nothing will change. If he's wrong, BW shrugs - something else was to blame for the mindboggling balance changes.

If he's right however, and despite his pointing out the flaws, BW have continued to rely heavily on this methodology for so long, then they are utterly wedded to it. Their stat analysis has become such a sacred cow, that no matter how many people poke wide gaping holes in it, nothing will change.
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Taerrik's Avatar


Taerrik
03.24.2013 , 02:16 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it.

In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro.

The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR.

This post needed a bump
Pot5
High Council
Tae'vin~ Gunslinger

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
03.24.2013 , 02:28 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it.

In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro.

The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR.
bump^

PoliteAssasin's Avatar


PoliteAssasin
03.24.2013 , 02:55 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Kovaos View Post
Facetious or serious? My slinger mows down all these smashtards.
Could ask you the same. My smashtard mows down the cute and squishy snipers.
Manager of Basic Skills For A Better Society. We hand out <basic skill stim>s in PVP to those in need. A donation of 1000 credits can help maintain the basic skills of 10 players for a day. Thousands of Republic PVPers are in dire need of these stims. Head to your local Pub Fleet and donate now!

Vember's Avatar


Vember
03.24.2013 , 03:02 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
As having a sniper since launch (sometimes 2) and just loving the way the class plays, I have to say I am concerned with the buffs incoming. My only hope is that other classes are getting some buffs as well to where it will minimize my beloved sniper becoming FOTM but I doubt that will happen.

.
It's too late man, right now the 10-49 warzones are so packed with sniper rerolls its't not even funny. Very common to see upwards of 9-11 snipers/GS per match.