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The time has come to revamp Civil War

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The time has come to revamp Civil War

magi_melcior's Avatar


magi_melcior
03.21.2013 , 07:01 AM | #21
CW has become rather tedious as of late, unless your with a team (and a leader) who actually thinks a bit about strategy you can pretty much predict how it is going to play out.

1. Both teams cap 1 side turret each.
2. Mad brawl at mid turret
3. 1 team caps mid
4. Losing team throws everything including the Kitchen sink at mid for half the match
5. Losing team gets desperate and tries a mass assault on the other side turret
6. Losing team gives up and farms medals

They do need to spice this one up a bit now, someone in another thread suggested upping the damage output of the mid turret, but not sure if that would actually help.

Removing the side speeders would be good and perhaps making it easier to get from the middle turret to the sides
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LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
03.21.2013 , 07:08 AM | #22
This post from the Is DPS Useless Post 50 thread has some interesting thoughts about high-level stalemates.

I wonder if re-enabling adrenals and relics and disabling field respec would help in ranked.

What about having mezzes work through DoTs or at least have mezzes clear DoTs so they work?
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PhilD's Avatar


PhilD
03.21.2013 , 07:08 AM | #23
Lately it seems like nearly every CW I've been in, the other faction sends 1-2 stealthers to the off side node right at the start, capping both sides right away. (At least when my faction only sends 1 and doesn't call incs.) Then, with the right people guarding, they can either zerg mid and 3-cap or at least prevent anyone else from capping. Is that the prevailing strategy in other people's CW games too?
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DarthFamine's Avatar


DarthFamine
03.21.2013 , 07:33 AM | #24
removal of the side speeders would make the map a zergfest as one team would be able to run back and forth between 2 nodes just preventing caps. It would still boil down to who capped first.

It would also make defending against a zerg rush on a side node far more difficult unless your entire team happened to be there.


If you are dead set on changing it I would suggest doing something that makes mid more valuable than a side node. Perhaps a buff of some type applied team wide.

I would be opposed to making it work like Novare Coast, primarily because two warzones with the exact same mechanic would get really old really fast.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
03.21.2013 , 07:45 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
Lately it seems like nearly every CW I've been in, the other faction sends 1-2 stealthers to the off side node right at the start, capping both sides right away. (At least when my faction only sends 1 and doesn't call incs.) Then, with the right people guarding, they can either zerg mid and 3-cap or at least prevent anyone else from capping. Is that the prevailing strategy in other people's CW games too?
if you have a combat sent and two counselors (pref shadows), then you can get the good trans + sprint and interfere with the opponents natural cap while getting your natural node asap. then the stalemate at mid wins it for you. it's pretty rare in regs, but it's the norm in rated, from kick ball through to the best guilds on server. the only choice I ever see is if you/they pull the goalie and when. however, if you're getting side capped right away, that's your team's fault. you have to notice a lack of red plates at mid right away.
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Taerrik's Avatar


Taerrik
03.21.2013 , 10:03 AM | #26
I agree, civil war needs to have the roof raised in mid to prevent ridiculous camera zooming issues

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
03.21.2013 , 12:13 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
i think exactly the opposite.

lol edit: I think exactly the same. dur.

every map in ranked play sucks. in hb (assuming you have the requisite comp), it comes down to throwing grenades in mid and holding off on scores until your shadow is ready to throw a grenade and pop resil. boring.

in nc, it comes down to who wins the race to mid and pops his grenades first. once mid is decided, it's game over. boring.

ahg is the worst of them all. spend 3-4 rounds standing outside the "hot box" trying to pull enemies out for focus fire. what could be a fun version of CW down to the wire becomes the biggest waste of time in pvp.

as already mentioned, cw comes down to who caps natural node first (must have combat trans + shadow sprint). then spend the rest of the wz tying up mid. there's literally one option: do we pull the goalie? and when?

regs, on the other hand, are not reduced to one lowsy strat, whether you use grenades, whether you have an exactly right comp, and they allow for comebacks.

I totally agree with op about CW, btw, it's stupid to spend half the wz already having lost cuz you need a 3-cap. a slight tweak in the rules and possibly elimination of the side speeders is all that is necessary to remedy the situation.

It's not like this is the only game where high level play makes the game boring. Pool, Poker, Bowling, Baseball? All way more interesting to watch, and more nail biting to participate in, at lower than top tier play because at top tier play the way things tend to work out, a match can be decided very early on with the drawn out slow loss to make official what everyone has known for awhile.

On the other hand, top tier play is also the only time top tier players can truly get any competition. Those top tier teams will steamroll anyone who CAN'T ensure mid goes uncontested for forever in ACW.

Regs allow for comebacks because they have a mix of good and very subpar players because for every miraculous comeback, there's a defense that screwed the pooch.

To reference your list:

I don't actually find huttball that boring in ranked. Both teams can have shadows throw grenades and pop resilience. The game is definitely won and lost at mid though, and knowing when to concede a score. There's a lot going on in a good huttball match actually, and I've been involved in way more (per capita) 0-0 regular matches where neither team can find their butts with both hands long enough to score over ranked matches.

Novarre, yes it's ultimately decided at mid, but that's the point. It's decided at mid in the zerg. CW is determined by who is fractionally decided by who gets to their natural turret first. Novarre allows interesting strategies because if it's a stalemate at mid the game forces you to come up with some way to change that, usually by pressuring their node without giving ground mid. Also some teams send a token force (usually a tank and healer) to harass mid and keep people slowed up while performing a mass assault on the off turret. Overall a much more dynamic game than ACW, and of course we've all been apart of 2%-0% victories (and losses) in Novarre.

Voidstar is either about luck at the door or who can deathmatch better sadly given the tie mechanic. At least it isn't entirely trivial to keep up a good defense unlike mid in civil war, but yes obviously top tier play here reduces to deathmatching.

That makes ancient hypergates both superfluous and kinda weird, though at least a known conclusion doesn't last for 10 minutes since the team that's better at death matching will grind out their win in 4 rounds, and I've seen more comebacks in this warzone since properly defending your own Pylon can sometimes lead to conceding that little bit extra ground at mid which tips the deathmatch scales in their favor.

Either way, none of the others suffer from a foregone conclusion in the opening 10-20 seconds which then gets drawn out for 20 minutes like Civil War does.
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MelliMelon's Avatar


MelliMelon
03.21.2013 , 01:24 PM | #28
The ranked matches with the top BC teams go as following:

(1) Civil War: it's all mind games, adjusting/responding, and composition. The match is decided by who can get a side first and then pointlessly slug it out at mid until the losers need to try something so desperate that they MAY lose the node.

(2) Voidstar: Everyone respeccs and the offense-team has a ridiculous amount of DPS and defending team has a lot of healers/tanks, but the door-mechanic allows the offense to respawn much quicker. This allows for some very exciting (though frustrating) matches.

(3) Novare: Unless there's a huge disparity of skill/gear/awareness, it's mostly who can (1) CC more and (2) take advantage of the side nodes best to capture and hold mid. I hate it because I hate CC (odd, since I'm a scoundrel)

(4) Ancient Hypergates: PvPers were asking for a deathmatch, and they got one. The doors are so long that if you start losing ground at mid, you're pretty much screwed, but you can't really back out because that allows orbs (4 orbs = a complete wipe of the team in points) to be captured. It's possible to do work at the sides if you have some extra stealthers. Pretty interesting match.

(5) Huttball: the cream of the crop. Sick of assassins always getting the ball at mid? Tell your vanguard to tail 'em. Sick of the sages always getting pulls? Tell your juggernaut to knock them off. Sick of X, do Y. It's always changing, always morphing, always making your team think on their feet. Sure, there's a certain "minimum composition" requirement, but after that it gets great.

UltimateKrucible's Avatar


UltimateKrucible
03.21.2013 , 03:28 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthFamine View Post
I'm going to have to disagree

Last night I played in one of the best CW matches ever.

we lost, the other team had 20 points left.
real nail biter, it came right down to the wire and we made them work their butts off for that win.

yes there is a point of no return, and that is part of the charm of the WZ.

matches like that one make civil war my favorite WZ.
Actually - I'm with you on this. I've had great Civil War matches. But they are so few and far between that I think a redesign is needed.

The good matches only show how enjoyable a WZ it would be if the mechanics were tweaked to make them more likely.
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funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
03.21.2013 , 04:08 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by MelliMelon View Post
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(2) Voidstar: Everyone respeccs and the offense-team has a ridiculous amount of DPS and defending team has a lot of healers/tanks, but the door-mechanic allows the offense to respawn much quicker. This allows for some very exciting (though frustrating) matches.
I've asked this before in other threads but this thread has far more intelligent folk and fewer trolls so I go at it again ...

I agree with the above. Do you think allowing respec before the WZ starts and then having to stick with that spec through both offense and defense phases would make the match more interesting or less? I think it would be more interesting if you could not respec at half time. There would be tension between offense and defense in chosing a spec.

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