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Since sorcs are asking for cover on PTS forum

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Since sorcs are asking for cover on PTS forum

CrazyOldMystic's Avatar


CrazyOldMystic
03.18.2013 , 09:04 PM | #61
If sorcs get cover, then every class should get cover, and after that you can pretty much say the sniper and smuggler are useless. When one could jump to sniper or smuggler it was not too simple to kill one, now you cant, it gives them an edge. Most importantly it makes the sniper useful in a warzone. Especially if they pick a good spot, where the fighting is.

If every class got cover then you would have to do something for the sniper and smuggler to give them that edge again.

As far as tears go, the only ones crying here, are the sorcs. They want to go back to the way it was at launch, never being able to be killed, healing off each other to the point that no dps could kill them. Being massively op. They never cease to amaze me. I think the main problem is sorcs do good in the low level wzs, when they hit the 50, all of a sudden then can be killed. This is probably where the I want cover idea came from.

biowareftw's Avatar


biowareftw
03.19.2013 , 12:25 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyOldMystic View Post
If sorcs get cover, then every class should get cover, and after that you can pretty much say the sniper and smuggler are useless. When one could jump to sniper or smuggler it was not too simple to kill one, now you cant, it gives them an edge. Most importantly it makes the sniper useful in a warzone. Especially if they pick a good spot, where the fighting is.

If every class got cover then you would have to do something for the sniper and smuggler to give them that edge again.

As far as tears go, the only ones crying here, are the sorcs. They want to go back to the way it was at launch, never being able to be killed, healing off each other to the point that no dps could kill them. Being massively op. They never cease to amaze me. I think the main problem is sorcs do good in the low level wzs, when they hit the 50, all of a sudden then can be killed. This is probably where the I want cover idea came from.
Agreed. Madness gets way too good way too early compared to other specs. People get used to stupidly strong bubbles (especially when they twink), and also get used to facetanking melee as a ranged class (a big no no). They have no idea how to kite, or even play a ranged class by the time they hit 50.

I think that is why they struggle so much when they hit 50 and cry up a storm. They literally have no idea how to play their class. They think that dotting a target, standing in one place and occasionally hitting a proc, while spamming one button will get it done endgame. Other classes don't get tools to counter their stuff until later.

I think making lightning a good pug dps spec was a good move by Bioware. The tree shines at later levels, like a carnage/rage marauder/MMsniper/concealment op (cept at low levels when twinked, snipe is OP as hell).

Another fix might be to move spammable lightning a tier up. Now for those that think this would make leveling hard, lightning is stupidly easy to level with. I mean hell, compared to say a dps scoundrel at low levels, it is fantastic.
Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.- Nikola Tesla - New York Times (11 July 1935)

Rincewend's Avatar


Rincewend
03.19.2013 , 12:30 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyOldMystic View Post
If sorcs get cover, then every class should get cover, and after that you can pretty much say the sniper and smuggler are useless. When one could jump to sniper or smuggler it was not too simple to kill one, now you cant, it gives them an edge. Most importantly it makes the sniper useful in a warzone. Especially if they pick a good spot, where the fighting is.

If every class got cover then you would have to do something for the sniper and smuggler to give them that edge again.

As far as tears go, the only ones crying here, are the sorcs. They want to go back to the way it was at launch, never being able to be killed, healing off each other to the point that no dps could kill them. Being massively op. They never cease to amaze me. I think the main problem is sorcs do good in the low level wzs, when they hit the 50, all of a sudden then can be killed. This is probably where the I want cover idea came from.
As a Sorc I never want cover, giving us more surviability is the wrong direction. We are not a tank and therefore do not stand in front of a jugg or PT trying to take them out. As much as I would like to return to pre1.2 when we were glass cannons those days are gone. We have never been unkillable I have played my sorc since the start. I could always be killed but pre1.2 people ran from me or tried to get me off guard to burst me down before I did it to them. After 1.2 all sorcs became free kills or forced to a hybrid spec. As for crying, sorcs are not the only ones, I have read many QQ's from every class (Merc, sorcs, pre1.2) Mara, juggs QQ bubble stun after 1.3 or 4. I have to say the only two classes I have not see a lot of crying from is PT's and Snipers (unless I missed the posts).

So lets be fair are sorcs the glass cannon people think they should be (not even close) even if they are full DPS spec and equiped out and permitted to stand and cast they do not put up good numbers. We are taken in huttball for our pull, we are taken in to ranked for our bubble stun (before 2.0 drops at least). In Lightning we have the best force regeneration but never need it as we have to keep moveing and all of our attacks have cast times or channel. In madness we can put out numbers but are always out of force. Why people have been running a hybrid build.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
03.19.2013 , 04:26 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyOldMystic View Post
As far as tears go, the only ones crying here, are the sorcs. They want to go back to the way it was at launch, never being able to be killed, healing off each other to the point that no dps could kill them.
This is the myth that people like to perpetuate as fact. Sorcs were NEVER OP, people didn't know about things like interrupt, so it seems as if they were OP.

But maybe you forgot the Merc heatseakers being OP, or scrappers and conceal ops, lolshotting you?

Whatever dude, thanks to the ignorance and unfounded QQ sorcs have been nerfed hard for no good reason, and the real OP classes, like warriors and knights, vanguards/powertechs which have been on top for months on end now, get away without a nerf but they have to whinge a little about bubble stun and hey what a suprise it gets a nerf, but smash doesn't.

Don't try and call foul here, coz the only foul committed has been AGAINST sorcs.

Silwyth's Avatar


Silwyth
03.19.2013 , 12:28 PM | #65
I'm convinced sorcs won't be satisfied until they can pull these shenanigans in this game as well.

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=167991
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISsOjfHgtws

WaldoA's Avatar


WaldoA
03.19.2013 , 12:51 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Silwyth View Post
I'm convinced sorcs won't be satisfied until they can pull these shenanigans in this game as well.

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=167991
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISsOjfHgtws

You've probably never played a Sorc then. I love my Sorc and I'll continue to play it through thick and thin, but yes they are in much need of a buff. I really don't get how so many people can be blind to how terrible this class really is. Sure it can pull great DPS numbers and good heals, but both of which only come from being left alone, in which any class can do that. Sorcerers have light armour (yes, the lowest) and only 2 defensive ability which blocks a mere 2-3k damage and a lame self heal which both are close to useless (not to mention bubble is halved in 2.0), alongside this, they have like the lowest burst of any class. People throw around the term 'glass-cannon' way too often, because right now we are just glass.

Defensive abilities; (excluding talents)
Sniper = 5 + Medium armour
Marauder = 4 + Medium armour
Juggernaut = 4 + Heavy armour
Assassin = 3 + Light armour
Operative = 3 + Medium armour
Powertech = 2 + Heavy armour
Mercenary = 2 + Heavy armour
Sorcerer = 2 + Light armour

Each of the 3 healing specs in this game are intended to be outweighed by melee to stop people being invincible.
Lightning tree can be easily shut down by interupts and keeps Sorc rooted to one spot.
Madness tree can also easily be shut down as the whole build revolves around Force Lightning.

Oh, and I have every one of those at level 50 except Merc, so the above is in no way bias.

See what I'm getting at?

CrazyOldMystic's Avatar


CrazyOldMystic
03.19.2013 , 06:08 PM | #67
"This is the myth that people like to perpetuate as fact. Sorcs were NEVER OP, people didn't know about things like interrupt, so it seems as if they were OP.

But maybe you forgot the Merc heatseakers being OP, or scrappers and conceal ops, lolshotting you?

Whatever dude, thanks to the ignorance and unfounded QQ sorcs have been nerfed hard for no good reason, and the real OP classes, like warriors and knights, vanguards/powertechs which have been on top for months on end now, get away without a nerf but they have to whinge a little about bubble stun and hey what a suprise it gets a nerf, but smash doesn't.

Don't try and call foul here, coz the only foul committed has been AGAINST sorcs."

Its no myth bud, let me tell you a story of fact. When I hit the 50 bracket on my commando, before commandos got waves of nerfs, me and four other dps were attacking one sorc. We could not kill the sorc no matter what we did. Why? He was healing himself while being healed by another sorc. The two of them sat at mid of civil war doing this the entire warzone. After that bioware nerfed them, so dont give me this bull that it was a myth lol. Also dont try to say it was just sorcs, sorcs got hit at the same time the sage did.

Now I am sure some troll will come along and give a whole list of interrupts blah blah blah of things we could have done. Insinuating that we did not know what we were doing. Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble but we were playing our class right. I was hardly the only dps that ran into that same problem with sorcs at the time.

I dont mind changes to a sorc that are needed, but giving them things like cover, or trying to boost them up like the way they were so they can sit at mid in civil war and heal each other the entire time is a bad idea.

Rincewend's Avatar


Rincewend
03.19.2013 , 06:56 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyOldMystic View Post
"This is the myth that people like to perpetuate as fact. Sorcs were NEVER OP, people didn't know about things like interrupt, so it seems as if they were OP.

But maybe you forgot the Merc heatseakers being OP, or scrappers and conceal ops, lolshotting you?

Whatever dude, thanks to the ignorance and unfounded QQ sorcs have been nerfed hard for no good reason, and the real OP classes, like warriors and knights, vanguards/powertechs which have been on top for months on end now, get away without a nerf but they have to whinge a little about bubble stun and hey what a suprise it gets a nerf, but smash doesn't.

Don't try and call foul here, coz the only foul committed has been AGAINST sorcs."

Its no myth bud, let me tell you a story of fact. When I hit the 50 bracket on my commando, before commandos got waves of nerfs, me and four other dps were attacking one sorc. We could not kill the sorc no matter what we did. Why? He was healing himself while being healed by another sorc. The two of them sat at mid of civil war doing this the entire warzone. After that bioware nerfed them, so dont give me this bull that it was a myth lol. Also dont try to say it was just sorcs, sorcs got hit at the same time the sage did.

Now I am sure some troll will come along and give a whole list of interrupts blah blah blah of things we could have done. Insinuating that we did not know what we were doing. Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble but we were playing our class right. I was hardly the only dps that ran into that same problem with sorcs at the time.

I dont mind changes to a sorc that are needed, but giving them things like cover, or trying to boost them up like the way they were so they can sit at mid in civil war and heal each other the entire time is a bad idea.
4 dps Vs to healing sorcs before 1.2 and you could not stun or interupt the ehaling and burst them down? There has to be more to it. Others comeing by interupting but they were never that OP. The only time I recal the DPS tree being OP was in closed beta and they buffed surge or crit chance and reset the servers I was a killing machine but was quickly patched and taken away. As a DPS sorc in the lightning try I would not ask for more def like cover makes no since (but this is the forums when do they ever make any except the CS threads). Output could use a push if they are intended to be a glass cannon.

Haystak's Avatar


Haystak
03.19.2013 , 07:31 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by WaldoA View Post
You've probably never played a Sorc then. I love my Sorc and I'll continue to play it through thick and thin, but yes they are in much need of a buff. I really don't get how so many people can be blind to how terrible this class really is. Sure it can pull great DPS numbers and good heals, but both of which only come from being left alone, in which any class can do that. Sorcerers have light armour (yes, the lowest) and only 2 defensive ability which blocks a mere 2-3k damage and a lame self heal which both are close to useless (not to mention bubble is halved in 2.0), alongside this, they have like the lowest burst of any class. People throw around the term 'glass-cannon' way too often, because right now we are just glass.

Defensive abilities; (excluding talents)
Sniper = 5 + Medium armour
Marauder = 4 + Medium armour
Juggernaut = 4 + Heavy armour
Assassin = 3 + Light armour
Operative = 3 + Medium armour
Powertech = 2 + Heavy armour
Mercenary = 2 + Heavy armour
Sorcerer = 2 + Light armour

Each of the 3 healing specs in this game are intended to be outweighed by melee to stop people being invincible.
Lightning tree can be easily shut down by interupts and keeps Sorc rooted to one spot.
Madness tree can also easily be shut down as the whole build revolves around Force Lightning.

Oh, and I have every one of those at level 50 except Merc, so the above is in no way bias.

See what I'm getting at?
what is a operatives 3rd defensive ability....

SHield(which is a bubble that be only cast on ourselves)
Dodge 3 Seconds(4 if ya got the set bonus) of WHite damage invulnerability and a cleanse wrapped into one.
Airwolf -55-Scoundrel
Mcrose -55-Shadow
Makros -55-Marauder
Mac-Ros -55-Vangaurd

WaldoA's Avatar


WaldoA
03.20.2013 , 03:55 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Haystak View Post
what is a operatives 3rd defensive ability....

SHield(which is a bubble that be only cast on ourselves)
Dodge 3 Seconds(4 if ya got the set bonus) of WHite damage invulnerability and a cleanse wrapped into one.
I think I was referring to the fact they can vanish in combat.