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Why are premades hated so much?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why are premades hated so much?

cycao's Avatar


cycao
03.19.2013 , 10:35 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
Premades need the crutch. Takes more skill to win as a pug than with a constant pocket healer and guardbot. Unless you're fighting other premades, which leads to my next point:

They're too scared to do ranked.
Well if rws were popping 24/7 and you could take any spec into them I am sure they would be more popular. Anyways nothing is more fun being on a pug with 6 tanks and 2 deeps or 6 mercs all speced arsenal or a bunch of lethality ops or the rare abundance of healers. I can have no issue with pugs but even with a pure pug v pug group it can be way worse than a facing a premade.

Cybermeister's Avatar


Cybermeister
03.19.2013 , 12:06 PM | #72
There's nothing wrong with pre-mades, per se. A pre-made could just be 3 or 4 friends playing together, and there should be nothing to stop that from happening. My point is not every pre-made' is a nightmare group from hell to play against (or with). And if people have the foresight to create a 'balanced' team (I'll come on to that in a second) then good for them... it makes the warzones more fun when you have a mix of classes.

Pre-mades usually have the advantage of voice comms (something I'd love to see added to the game for any ops group) but sometimes that can be disadvantage if they don't communicate properly with the other half of their ops group.

When it ceases to be fun is when you have an opposing team consisting of 2 pre-made kill-squads, all with full min-max aug'd EWH gear, stacking uber-dps FotM classes with people who really know how to play their toons, coming up against a group with people in recruit gear (or worse, the ones who don't even realise that recruit gear is better than their Tionese set for PvP) who are still trying to learn their class abilities in pvp.

Because most pre-mades seem to stack dps uber alles the rate at which these groups destroy an 'unbalanced' (as opposed to imbalanced!) team is frightening. It only takes a small imbalance ...just one or two people who can't play their chosen class to it's full potential (whether that's down to gear, skill or a combination of factors) will turn what could have been a fun warzone into a rout. It doesn't matter how well you're geared, or how well you play individually, the already large disparity in dps increases as each person is 'eliminated' (albeit temporarily) from the fight. And then of course the QQ starts, and most of the time it's game over.

I've seen it from both sides of the coin as I play both as a member of a pre-made team where my tank regularly has 250K+ protection and the healer and dps I group with are racking up 500K+ respective stats), and often beat similarly geared teams whereas playing individually and meeting those same people / teams it turns into a massacre.

It's not even a question of 'L2P' for the losers in those cases - people simply don't live long enough to learn anything about their class when you're getting slaughtered in 2 GCDs. It's demoralising to the extent that it's counterproductive - people simply stop playing because it's just not fun, and the pool of potential players decreases so your chance of encountering another pre-made uberteam is increased.

Vember's Avatar


Vember
03.19.2013 , 12:10 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Cybermeister View Post

When it ceases to be fun is when you have an opposing team consisting of 2 pre-made kill-squads, all with full min-max aug'd EWH gear, stacking uber-dps FotM classes with people who really know how to play their toons, coming up against a group with people in recruit gear (or worse, the ones who don't even realise that recruit gear is better than their Tionese set for PvP) who are still trying to learn their class abilities in pvp.

Because most pre-mades seem to stack dps uber alles the rate at which these groups destroy an 'unbalanced' (as opposed to imbalanced!) team is frightening. It only takes a small imbalance ...just one or two people who can't play their chosen class to it's full potential (whether that's down to gear, skill or a combination of factors) will turn what could have been a fun warzone into a rout. It doesn't matter how well you're geared, or how well you play individually, the already large disparity in dps increases as each person is 'eliminated' (albeit temporarily) from the fight. And then of course the QQ starts, and most of the time it's game over.

I've seen it from both sides of the coin as I play both as a member of a pre-made team where my tank regularly has 250K+ protection and the healer and dps I group with are racking up 500K+ respective stats), and often beat similarly geared teams whereas playing individually and meeting those same people / teams it turns into a massacre.
According to select few long winded posters here, what you describe does not exist, and is a myth perpetuated by skill-less noobs.

Totaltrash's Avatar


Totaltrash
03.19.2013 , 01:18 PM | #74
90% of the time, I pug and I don't really mind premades IF they are trying to win efficiently.

Last night, I joined a premade myself and we got huttball.
5 mins later it was 5:0 in our favor and the warzone should have been over.
But one guy says "don't score, lets farm them!"

So, for the next 5 minutes the warzone deteriorated into a DM-style pug slaughter.
Finally I was disgusted enough to score and end it, which prompted my teammates to yell at me.

Getting steamrolled by a superior team isn't nice, but an acceptable part of the game.
Getting unnecessarily humiliated for the maximum duration of the warzone is what's really hated.

Unfortunately, there will always be people who enjoy inflicting misery on others, hence pug and premade queues should be separated.

PhilD's Avatar


PhilD
03.19.2013 , 01:26 PM | #75
Actually what we need is a griefer-only queue.
The Finglonger Legacy

Slicktime's Avatar


Slicktime
03.19.2013 , 01:50 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Totaltrash View Post
90% of the time, I pug and I don't really mind premades IF they are trying to win efficiently.

Last night, I joined a premade myself and we got huttball.
5 mins later it was 5:0 in our favor and the warzone should have been over.
But one guy says "don't score, lets farm them!"

So, for the next 5 minutes the warzone deteriorated into a DM-style pug slaughter.
Finally I was disgusted enough to score and end it, which prompted my teammates to yell at me.

Getting steamrolled by a superior team isn't nice, but an acceptable part of the game.
Getting unnecessarily humiliated for the maximum duration of the warzone is what's really hated.

Unfortunately, there will always be people who enjoy inflicting misery on others, hence pug and premade queues should be separated.
that might have been me that said don't score lets farm them. i lvl up through wz's and ending it 5 minutes early would be a big hit on the exp maybe even a loss of 10-15k exp. the other team would get more medals too so i don't know whats wrong with it. yes i know you would say lets move on to the next wz... since q pops are random as h3ll it might be instant or it could be 20 minutes. already in the wz might as well get more exp.

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
03.19.2013 , 02:11 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
According to select few long winded posters here, what you describe does not exist, and is a myth perpetuated by skill-less noobs.
No.

The ubiquitous min/maxed EWH kill-squads who rampage through the Regular War Zone Queue incessantly day in and day out farming innocent PUG groups and making PVP impossible is a myth.

Two concepts you never quite grasped well; Frequency and Significance.

No one has ever claimed these groups do not exist; the argument is that the Elite Groups are, by their very nature, fundamentally different than most pick-up Grouped Teams and represent a minority of the "Premade" community.

The vast majority of the Premades on The Shadowlands for instance are usually multi-Guild groupings of above average players using whatever classes and combinations they happen to have at the moment. They are hardly the elite, balanced, min/maxed groupings you and people like you so love to demagogue.

People love to conflate a highly varied community ranging from Grouped-Puggers to Ranked-Ready teams under the title "Premade" so they can grind personal vendettas against people they blame for their difficulties.

At the end of the day I would argue your average Premade is little more than a group of veteran players in some mix of War Hero gear who, if they have Voice Chat, use it mostly to make fun of each other...

...in short, the devil incarnate and source of all PVP woes...(other than Smash and B-Stun that is)

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
03.19.2013 , 03:16 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
Actually what we need is a griefer-only queue.
lol! right. here here.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
03.19.2013 , 03:23 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Slicktime View Post
that might have been me that said don't score lets farm them. i lvl up through wz's and ending it 5 minutes early would be a big hit on the exp maybe even a loss of 10-15k exp. the other team would get more medals too so i don't know whats wrong with it. yes i know you would say lets move on to the next wz... since q pops are random as h3ll it might be instant or it could be 20 minutes. already in the wz might as well get more exp.
this post is so full of crap, I don't even know where to begin.

  • xp + rewards from winning matches far exceeds xp gains from individual kills.
  • thus, getting into a new game faster = more xp.
  • no Q pop takes 20 minutes outside of the very wee hours of the morning/night. and lowbies pop even more frequently than 50s.

lastly, why would you want to increase your leveling speed if you only use WZs? the whole POINT of exclusively leveling through WZs is to stack comms, garner more medpacs/adrenals, and hoard them for all your toons (or make bank selling them to people on GTN). leveling in this game is ridiculously fast and easy to begin with...even through WZs...even w/o any xp buffs.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Slicktime's Avatar


Slicktime
03.19.2013 , 03:28 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
this post is so full of crap, I don't even know where to begin.

  • xp + rewards from winning matches far exceeds xp gains from individual kills.
  • thus, getting into a new game faster = more xp.
  • no Q pop takes 20 minutes outside of the very wee hours of the morning/night. and lowbies pop even more frequently than 50s.

lastly, why would you want to increase your leveling speed if you only use WZs? the whole POINT of exclusively leveling through WZs is to stack comms, garner more medpacs/adrenals, and hoard them for all your toons (or make bank selling them to people on GTN). leveling in this game is ridiculously fast and easy to begin with...even through WZs...even w/o any xp buffs.
you obviously don't know what you are talking about. i get more exp when i have a full match than when we blaze through and score 6 times. you are assuming that the q will pop instantly when you leave the match... that is wrong. why would u want to end the warzone fast when it will guarantee more exp?