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Sage PvP DPS on Live


LightAndShade's Avatar


LightAndShade
03.10.2013 , 09:29 PM | #1
Hey everybody,

My main is a sentinel but I have been playing my sage lately for healing friends in normal warzones. Bubble spec is OP, but also been puddling (AoE) a bit ahead of 2.0. Throughout all this I've read repeatedly that sage DPS is poor in PvP (compared to PT, Smash etc). But recently I've played some sage DPS and I could not disagree more.

I've been putting out massive numbers as DPS, my best is 1010 DPS in a 1/2-3/4 length voidstar, but I'm consistently pulling 550-850 DPS per game. My biggest flaw is that I play like a sentinel still; I position way too far forward, often in melee range. Sage DPS is very strong! It suffers from serious survivability issues if focused hard but thats true of every class, especially one thats ranged with light armour. This often happens when there aren't any melee DPS teammates who draw most of the focus fire and my DPS suffers as a result. But overall, its seriously viable and short of getting trained the entire game you can go toe-to-toe, if not beat any other DPS class.

Now I could be behind the times and in fact people do play sage DPS, but I never see them on my server. So I want to know why people think Sage DPS isn't worth playing? Is it output, or just survivability, mobility or utility? Keen to hear some thoughts!!

chrisronline's Avatar


chrisronline
03.11.2013 , 06:33 PM | #2
The major two things I hear about DPS sages in PvP is poor survivability and lack of burst - keep in mind that when I talk about poor survivability, I don't mean in a PuG situation, but rather in a coordinated, train situation.

I've just started doing rated as a DPS sage and I don't think we're necessarily too gimped to compete. We have the ability to spread DPS concurrently throughout an entire raid, but lack the ability to truly burst down classes compared to other DPS specs. Other than the ability to heal ourselves, we have no other way to mitigate a coordinated melee train (something like Force Barrier which we'll get in 2.0) so it's easy for other team to score a quick kill in the start of the match. If your team features a tank, the tank could potentially guard you to prevent you from getting wrecked but then his guard is off a healer and the opposing team could be a quick hard switch to the healer, etc. The main point is that you're more of a liability than something like a Sentinel but you do not necessarily do more damage than them.

Of course, you can't ignore the notion of "bringing the player" and not the "class" - elite players can shine with any class.

Anyways, I'd love to hear more thoughts from other Sages/Sorc that actually play in rateds (I know Bestworld does so hopefully he can offer some thoughts)
Nopie Legacy
Bastion, POT5, TOFN

MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
03.17.2013 , 03:40 PM | #3
Burst is everything in PvP. Sorcs and sages can put out a lot of damage but most if it becomes fluff if the other team has a healer. It's more or less impossible to take down a scoundrel/operative healer if we don't have power on every mod and are significally better players.

Dumpiel's Avatar


Dumpiel
03.19.2013 , 03:07 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by LightAndShade View Post
My main is a sentinel but I have been playing my sage lately for healing friends in normal warzones...
I've been putting out massive numbers as DPS, my best is 1010 DPS...
Ok yes, Sages are fun to play.. but why don't you post your dps spec and your healing spec so we know how you enjoy playing your sage.

What do you like the most ? healing, DPSing or being a little bit of both at the same time.

I personally enjoy playing it as a swiss army knife (2/21/18). I only PUG and there are so many diffrent scenarii that being a good "all around" toon is usualy an asset for the team...

LightAndShade's Avatar


LightAndShade
03.19.2013 , 08:53 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Dumpiel View Post
why don't you post your dps spec and your healing spec
When I'm bubbling I play: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...zZf0RroMbZ0M.2

When I'm puddling I play: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...MdGzZf00MZ0M.2

Since I first posted I've done just over 1.1k DPS with this build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...dRrhZcMcRsMz.2

The only thing I'd mention with the DPS build is you can really do whatever you want with the bottom of the tele tree. I find it literally impossible to run out of force so I get as few regen talents as I can. Can mount an argument against that but I just find myself never needing more force.
Agree about Sage being so versatile. In terms of team heals I generally just cleanse and bubble teammates (as opposed to hard cast heals).

@chrisronline and @Midichlorian you make good points about the burst. It does feel like the weakest aspect. I wouldn't say its fluff damage (or dot damage). It feels to me like constant single target or AoE pressure damage. It can't compete with Pyro/Smash but it is solid nonetheless. I'm going to play my first ranked game with it this week so I'm excited to see how it goes focusing targets down in that environment

Dumpiel's Avatar


Dumpiel
03.23.2013 , 04:55 AM | #6
Thanks for your reply.

I like your last spec as it is very close to the one i use, surely more punchy.

Could you post your gear too, if you got time, please ? did you have a lot of power in your set ? are you using force master or stalker set ?

On a side note I'd like to know if you ever played full TK in Pvp and the results
I'm Trying to find a good TK spec and rotation as i see a lot of sorcerers making people melt from far in PUG WZ lately.

LightAndShade's Avatar


LightAndShade
03.23.2013 , 08:12 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Dumpiel View Post
Could you post your gear too, if you got time, please ? did you have a lot of power in your set ? are you using force master or stalker set ?

On a side note I'd like to know if you ever played full TK in Pvp and the results
My gear is all built for healing. I have no idea what the differences should be for DPS. I sit near 950 Bonus Force Damage with ~76.5% Surge, ~6.93% Alac and ~34% Force Crit. I have mostly 63 mods with some 61s.
My set bonus is silly, I have just been using healing set bonuses. At least, thats what I did the good DPS games with. But since I have been playing DPS more lately I recently got just the 2 set force master pvp bonus, thats it.

I haven't played full TK much in pvp. Its great if you don't get focused, but you will get focused. I have seen it totally dominate in lowbies, but never in 50s.

I played my first ranked games with Sage DPS earlier this week. Wen't very well. Played two games (2-0) and topped the table in both. Definitely harder to burst a target compared to playing my sentinel but the damage is relatively high and immensely steady. I'll have to play more ranked games to test its viability properly.

psybernetic's Avatar


psybernetic
03.25.2013 , 09:22 AM | #8
I've played pugs as lightning with a guildmate or two and my numbers weren't all that excellent. I managed to not get focused in a Novare Coast and put out about 174k dmg (not a lot of aoe going on that match) and went 20-0. Decent survival ratio, but a lot of it was spent running away. I probably should mention that I don't have a bunch of expertise -- somewhere around 8-900. TB crits were around 3500.
Psychedelic ViolenceXCrime of Visual Shock
Spice must flow.
Vorbis voce Imperatoris loquitur.
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DesmoLegacy's Avatar


DesmoLegacy
03.25.2013 , 10:11 AM | #9
My personal opinion is that DPS sage/sorcs are amazing in utility and overall health of the team dynamic of a WZ. Good ones can hang right with the best smashers/PT's in dmg as well as add a tremendous amount of CC and survival to a team.

So what holds them back? Skill cap, this class from a dps standpoint requires to most skill cap IMO to play. You have to have good instincts on position and also be able to read things out in order to capitalize. (knowing when to rescue healers, maximize cc/knockback for objectives, utilize long CD offensive spells, and bubble proper switch targets etc....)

Watching some streams from the Harb server I felt showed what this class can really do. There is a sorc named Darc on my server i've been watching streams. Every game his tactics seemed to change, and that to me shows a huge potential for this class as well as a huge variance in effectiveness due to skill cap. Watch some of his vids to see how deadly a dps sage/sorc can be.

My biggest issue with them in rated's is that the current meta usually involved multiple smashers, it's like seeing a pack of cage animals get unleashed at once...results can turn out to be ugly. As one person earlier mentioned, 1-2 smashers can maybe be avoided but if you are vulnerable to getting blown up quickly by 3-4 of them and all of a sudden your utility you brought to the table is gone. Getting blown up quickly and early gives the other team a potential for a game breaking early cap/door.

You're also taking a dps spot from a potential vanguard/PT or Smasher, so you better bring it and lay some wood to make it worthwhile or you're just a liability.
Ducatii - 50 Marauder | Ducatista - 50 Operative
Dain'ese - 50 Juggernaut | Ducatisti - 50 Sniper
D'ucati - 50 Sentinel | Duc'ati - 50 Sage | Enduro - 50 Vanguard

Jayshames's Avatar


Jayshames
03.25.2013 , 10:16 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by LightAndShade View Post
Hey everybody,

My main is a sentinel but I have been playing my sage lately for healing friends in normal warzones. Bubble spec is OP, but also been puddling (AoE) a bit ahead of 2.0. Throughout all this I've read repeatedly that sage DPS is poor in PvP (compared to PT, Smash etc). But recently I've played some sage DPS and I could not disagree more.

I've been putting out massive numbers as DPS, my best is 1010 DPS in a 1/2-3/4 length voidstar, but I'm consistently pulling 550-850 DPS per game. My biggest flaw is that I play like a sentinel still; I position way too far forward, often in melee range. Sage DPS is very strong! It suffers from serious survivability issues if focused hard but thats true of every class, especially one thats ranged with light armour. This often happens when there aren't any melee DPS teammates who draw most of the focus fire and my DPS suffers as a result. But overall, its seriously viable and short of getting trained the entire game you can go toe-to-toe, if not beat any other DPS class.

Now I could be behind the times and in fact people do play sage DPS, but I never see them on my server. So I want to know why people think Sage DPS isn't worth playing? Is it output, or just survivability, mobility or utility? Keen to hear some thoughts!!
There is no denying Sage/Sorc can pull great numbers at the end of the warzone, that is not the point. They lack burst and survivability, basically they just spam the same attack over and over again for 1k ticks. The reason they get such high numbers is because their damage is ranged and it's constant.