Selecting need for loot

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Selecting need for loot

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Ratajack

03.18.2013 , 05:57 PM \| #201	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins That's obvious that Player A is also in the wrong as he's rolling on need for something that wasn't an upgrade to his personal toon. Although I haven't done a FP in over a month, when I was, I never needed anything as I'm full BiS. I was just going for the BH comms. Still, I never rolled need. Didn't even need to look at the drop. None of it, obviously, was going to be an upgrade. So I rolled need. Then if someone asked if they could roll need because they wanted the mods, or off-spec, or for a comp I didn't care. That's how you do it (both on my end and the other peoples' ends) unless you want to get ostracized. How about two more examples. Player A Shadow tank Player B Vanguard DPS Player C Sage DPS Player D Scoundrel healer Aim chest piece with shield and absorb rating drops. It would be a huge upgrade for Corso. Who gets to roll need? Player A Guardian tank Player B Sentinel DPS Player C Gunslinger DPS Player D Sage healer Heavy armor chest piece drops with DPS stats- strength, endurance and power, but no shield and no absorb rating. Who gets to roll need?

Swaption

03.18.2013 , 05:57 PM \| #202	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack Player A vanguard tank Player B sentinel DPS Player C gunslinger DPS Player D scoundrel healer Aim chestpiece drops. How is telling player D that he cannot roll need on that chest piece (that might be a huge upgrade for Corso) when the tank rolls need (even if he is already wearing the same chest piece) not denying Player D a chance at that chest piece? You seem like an intelligent person, but your understanding of why the need/greed conventions are the way they are is wrong. The foundation of the system is in maximizing overall utility. An upgrade for a player character leads to greater utility to that player than an upgrade for a player companion. As for everyone having a "chance" for loot, this system makes the chance/roll essentially occur before the loot is dropped. If no item drops that you are entitled to need on by this convention, you already lost the roll that occured when the game was deciding which piece of gear to drop. It does not mean you didn't get a fair share of the loot. Any argument otherwise ignores the prior probability inherent in the drop roll. Furthermore, even if you completely disagree with the system and reasoning above, you have to recognize that it is largely fair if everyone follows its rules (if anything, it must be fair by symmetry). If you decide to break these rules while everyone else follows them, you will come out ahead of those who follow the rules. You do not have to agree with these conventions, but you must recognize that they exist and are considered the default rules by a huge majority of the community unless otherwise noted. Finally, if you choose to act differently but want to do so in a fair and mature way, you should announce your roll conventions ahead of time. That way, the system is still fair, albeit suboptimal. If you find a group of people that agree with you, then there is no problem at all. However, you will most likely find that doing so will most likely get you kicked from the group without further discussion.
Kgu - Sniper \| Kzg - Mercenary \| K-g - Marauder

Ratajack

03.18.2013 , 06:02 PM \| #203	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack Player A vanguard tank Player B sentinel DPS Player C gunslinger DPS Player D scoundrel healer Aim chestpiece drops. How is telling player D that he cannot roll need on that chest piece (that might be a huge upgrade for Corso) when the tank rolls need (even if he is already wearing the same chest piece) not denying Player D a chance at that chest piece? Quote: Originally Posted by Swaption You seem like an intelligent person, but your understanding of why the need/greed conventions are the way they are is wrong. The foundation of the system is in maximizing overall utility. An upgrade for a player character leads to greater utility to that player than an upgrade for a player companion. As for everyone having a "chance" for loot, this system makes the chance/roll essentially occur before the loot is dropped. If no item drops that you are entitled to need on by this convention, you already lost the roll that occured when the game was deciding which piece of gear to drop. It does not mean you didn't get a fair share of the loot. Any argument otherwise ignores the prior probability inherent in the drop roll. Furthermore, even if you completely disagree with the system and reasoning above, you have to recognize that it is largely fair if everyone follows its rules (if anything, it must be fair by symmetry). If you decide to break these rules while everyone else follows them, you will come out ahead of those who follow the rules. You do not have to agree with these conventions, but you must recognize that they exist and are considered the default rules by a huge majority of the community unless otherwise noted. Finally, if you choose to act differently but want to do so in a fair and mature way, you should announce your roll conventions ahead of time. That way, the system is still fair, albeit suboptimal. If you find a group of people that agree with you, then there is no problem at all. However, you will most likely find that doing so will most likely get you kicked from the group without further discussion. All that typing and you didn't even answer the question asked.

river_of_Gem

03.18.2013 , 06:29 PM \| #204	Quote
We all know that there are no rule that forced us to give our seat to pregnant woman or old people on bus, but we do it anyway

Swaption

03.18.2013 , 06:37 PM \| #205	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack All that typing and you didn't even answer the question asked. If it wasn't clear from context, I was referring to your earlier comments. In that case there is no mainstat "need" roll and its just whatever the group decides on. Standard ettiquette is only very clear for mainstat upgrades.
Kgu - Sniper \| Kzg - Mercenary \| K-g - Marauder

UniverseSong

03.18.2013 , 06:44 PM \| #206	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack How about two more examples. Player A Shadow tank Player B Vanguard DPS Player C Sage DPS Player D Scoundrel healer Aim chest piece with shield and absorb rating drops. It would be a huge upgrade for Corso. Who gets to roll need? Player A Guardian tank Player B Sentinel DPS Player C Gunslinger DPS Player D Sage healer Heavy armor chest piece drops with strength, endurance and power, but no shield and no absorb rating. Who gets to roll need? If your lucky enough to group with decent people the situation for those should be GREED for everyone , unless of course a player within the group says hey do you mind if i need for off-spec or companion. Had a situation myself today pugged a SM EC , there was a Vanguard that joined as a Tank and myself on my commando dps, at the last boss when kephess drops the BH pieces he needs on the Aim pieces regardless of the fact they were clearly dps items , and when asked why he a Tank in Dreadguard / Campaign gear his response "I don't give a ** , DPS is my main spec , and what do you care its only BH gear ... i can need it so i will" keeping in mind that my gear is tionese/columi . Who should have won those ? Fact is the system as is can work perfectly fine when not dealing with the above kind ***s. And unfortunatly they are becoming more and more common because theres no system in place to have something done.

nateslice

03.18.2013 , 07:11 PM \| #207	Quote
You guys who like Needing on everything should keep something else in mind, something you don't seem to be taking into account here. We bind ourselves by these unwritten rules, too. All you see is that we're telling you you can't Need on gear for your companions; you're neglecting to consider that we, in turn, won't be Needing on stuff that's better-suited for you. If the first three drops in a flashpoint are best-suited for your character, hey, congratulations on getting three new pieces of gear. If the fourth drop is best-suited for me, please have the consideration to Pass on it like I Passed on all your shiny new pieces. Or, just go ahead and exercise this "freedom of choice" you're so keen on bringing up, and don't complain if I exercise my freedom of association by leaving the group and putting you on my Ignore list.

Belacose

03.18.2013 , 07:17 PM \| #208	Quote
Simply put, if you roll need on an item for your companion without even discussing it with the group you should expect yourself to be waiting in longer queues in the future as more and more people add you to their ingnore list. The choice is yours.

Taminy

03.18.2013 , 07:21 PM \| #209	Quote
Standard convention is rolling need on stuff for one's char only that actually benefits the char - not companions, not alts, not a guardian taking an orange piece of trooper gear because it looks cool, and not to sell on the GTN or vendor. That's the standard convention. If you should believe it to be otherwise, discuss it with your group before rolls. Just rolling need before saying anything is a dbag move. If that's your belief, have the balls to discuss it first. /thread

Prysha

03.18.2013 , 07:21 PM \| #210	Quote
easy, i need what i need.. thats it.
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