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How will these pts changes affect The Ebon Hawk crafting

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How will these pts changes affect The Ebon Hawk crafting

Satedbuffalo's Avatar

03.08.2013 , 07:12 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Badfenix View Post
BIS will not be craftable in the expansion, only second best. I don't think it will matter much because all content in current game can be cleared with min/max second bis since bioware tunes an entire instance on the same gear level and end bosses dont require more gear then the first boss. A lot of people are getting worked up about it, what does the ebon hawk think?
I very much support this change. Being able to craft BiS items was poisonous fruit: folks very easily geared into full 63s and I get the sense that raiding across a number of the larger social guilds has suffered as a result.

I'm looking forward to BW's final decisions about crafting in 2.0; it seems like they have their priorities straight. In my opinion -- as someone with most of the lvl 27 schematics -- this won't hurt crafters at all. I still get orders for level 26 items.

[I would like to see some love for armormech/synthweaving, though.]
Just some jerk who isn't good enough for rated.

minervasunrider's Avatar

03.08.2013 , 11:36 AM | #12
Incoming wall of text:

1. It was obviously a mistake to make crafted items learnable since people had to use a workaround to do this. This should have been fixed so that crafters who don't raid couldn't just (as someone brought up) profit off the efforts of others. This is a separate issue and they didn't need to fix it by making BiS non-craftable.

2. While I understand that making top tier gear craftable can reduce the motivation for raiding at all, and this probably affected <Empire> over the long haul (with at least some people losing the motivation to raid once everybody had their min/maxed 63s), it also brought with it the tremendous flexibility to be able to level an alt to fill in a role and immediately have it in full 63s (or close to it) and able to raid. There's a difference between a noob 50 who's never raided before who doesn't really "deserve" to be in full 63s (just because they have the credits) and somebody who *has* put in the time - just on another toon. So this is definitely a pro of the current system. If we really begrudge other players access to the top end gear without raiding then there's already a game system in place that could potentially address that feeling: reputation (I'm not advocating this, just saying it's probably a better way to address the matter of "desert").

3. A definite downside of the current system is that a lot of players outgear much of the currently available endgame content. They don't experience it as a challenge (they're in full black hole to run HM EV/KP or in full 63s to run EC and Asation). Of course not every week should be progression but one should have experienced content at the bottom range of the properly tuned gear level in order to learn how to properly execute a fight and learn its various nuances. This is part of the challenge of PvE and what makes it fun (what stops it from getting old), as well as what helps a raiding group get its act together and figure out how to get better (as well as which weak links need to be repaired or replaced). So a definite upside of the new system is if it makes gear progression slightly longer and therefore operations a longer challenge. However, given BW's penchance to cave to QQ in the past I'd pessimistically predict that they will simply end up tuning the hardest content to the craftable gear, if not from the get-go then once enough people complain. This will simply reintroduce the downsides of the current system.
The Ebon Hawk | The Athena Legacy | <Game Genie> | <Empire>

KeyboardNinja's Avatar

03.08.2013 , 02:44 PM | #13
Current top-tier content on the PTS can be cleared pretty easily in just the gear that is craftable (69s). You need to be fairly coordinated to get through HM S&V, but nothing ever feels like a gear check the way that NiM EC on live feels like a gear check to tanks and/or healers in 61s. I'm guessing that NiM TfB will be more challenging, but it's really hard to say. I really liked having an instance which was tuned for fully min-maxed BiS gear. The fact that NiM EC didn't drop any progression gear was (I thought) a really good decision.

Coming back to the crafting changes, I'm actually semi-opposed. I do strongly agree that the massive proliferation of 63 level mods on live is a serious problem. Gear score is a meaningless metric of player skill now, since *everyone* has min-maxed Dread Guard. The crafters are very wealthy (and I've benefited as much as anyone here), but that's about the only benefit. However, it's going to be very difficult to get min-maxed Ultimate gear in 2.0. Granted, the itemization is significantly better than the stock Dread Guard on live, but it's still not ideal (everyone will need to swap around 6-8 mods to achieve ideal itemization). Without crafting, this process is slowed down to the level that it was back in the Rakata tier, which was nightmarishly hard to min-max.

I would much rather have seen BioWare dramatically reduce the rate of acquisition for exotic mats (which they actually did in 2.0) by removing the RE reward, both on PvE and PvP mods (especially PvP), and by reducing the drop rate in operations. Ideally, exotic mats should only be obtainable by guilds that are actually *clearing* the top-tier content, and then only in limited supply. This would organically restrict top-tier mod crafting to guilds that have cleared the content, and would rate limit the supply to such an extent that these guilds could *only* use crafting as a means to min-max gear in their core progression unit. Of course, this also dramatically lowers the incentive to RE everything (particularly with the new 10% learn chance), so it's more likely that guilds would min-max without resorting to crafting and simply stockpile mats for alt and/or B-team gearing.

I don't know, it's a delicate balance. I think the situation currently on live is simply untenable. It encourages all the wrong behavior: pay to win PvE, and node-camping PvP for farming mats. Irrespective of the problems with the solution in 2.0, it's certainly going to be better than live.

Oh, and for all crafters worried about making a living in the new regime: level 69 gear is craftable and is *not* readily obtainable via flashpoints. Black Market (level 69 sans set bonus) gear is obtainable via coms, but rate limited to a single piece per week. Also, the mods on Black Market gear are terrible (all high-endurance). The good mods are *only* obtainable from Arkanian (level 69 with set bonus) pieces, which only drop in operations. So, there will still be significant demand for the good level 69 mods and enhancements, even though they aren't best in slot. That, combined with the dramatically decreased supply of exotic materials should make for a fairly healthy crafting market, even in 2.0.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Arvig's Avatar

03.11.2013 , 06:51 AM | #14
I'm actually someone whom doesn't do a lot of HM Ops and I have no issue with this change. Oh sure, I'd like to be able to hire crafters to get top end gear but I also do understand that if I'm at most doing story mode Ops that I don't need top end OPS/raid gear. I don't feel slighted by having only "second best" if I'm not out there doing HM and Nightmere mode ops myself. As long as I am able to do the content I do enjoy doing each day, I'm happy.