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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.10.2013 , 10:23 AM | #271
The magnetic tracking missiles lock onto a signature that isn't masked by the cloaking device, allowing them to home in on the target regardless of whether the device is activated or not. The only problem is that unless you have a place to fire the weapon initially, it won't know what signature to lock onto. This problem can be worked around in two ways:

1. Sith with particular skill in Force Sight, or sensitivity to such disturbances in the Force, in the CIC can alert the missile batteries when the gravity well pulls the incoming ships back into realspace. They only need a direction and range to lock the missiles on target, and since the radius of the gravity well is a known constant, the Sith only need to provide the direction of the ship they sensed. Death by science.

2. I'm pretty sure that stealth fields can't be engaged when making the jump/transition to or from hyperspace. They're a serious drain on the ship's power plant, and running them continuously during a hyperspace jump (even if it were possible, which is not known for certain) would probably burn out the systems, or put undo strain which could damage them.

So, if pulled unexpectedly from hyperspace by the gravity well there would be a delay while the stealth fields were engaged. This would provide an additional window where the Sith warships could get additional targeting information before the cloaking devices kicked in, further enhancing the missile's lock on their magnetic signatures.

As Darth Vader would put it "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability [...] is insignificant next to the power of the Force."



Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But back to the battle, let's not forget what we're dealing with here. A small army of stealthed HK-50 assassin droids armed with advanced weaponry and most importantly anti-stealth technology. What this means primarily is that the Academy won't see the attack coming, nor will any sentries (if there any) and for that matter, nor will any storm beasts. So the droids and effectively move silently and safely towards the academy without encountering a single threat.
Yes, back to the battle. While stealth technology will enable the droids to evade any roving patrols on their way to the Academy, and likely sneak around Storm Beasts, this doesn't eliminate the threat posed by the storms, etc. which may still enact a toll on the droids from collapsing rocks, shifting ground, gravitic tremors, and the other natural hazards of Malachor V.

So, they get close to the Academy, possibly even up to the bridge itself, without detection by the Sith. This will give them tactical surprise, but not strategic surprise. What I mean by this is that the Academy will be on standby to defend against an invasion, but they won't know quite when it's coming.

So they'll be able to ambush the guards near the entrance, and perhaps force their way across the bridge. However, even if they reactivate their stealth fields, the Academy's defenders will know they're coming (blaster fire and explosions at the entrance aren't very ambiguous. Once the shooting starts, the Sith will man their posts). So, they try sneaking into the Academy to achieve tactical surprise again, but this is where their precious stealth fields will fail them.

The simplest techniques are often the most effective. Advanced technology can often be defeated through straightforward methods. For example, to counter enemies known to be using stealth fields, simply scatter fine powder on the floor at key chokepoints leading into the Academy and watch for footprints, then light 'em up.

This leads me to the concept of "kill zones". When you set up a defensive position, you look to create overlapping fields of fire with your emplaced weapons (turrets and repeating blasters) and to allow mutual support between your firing positions. Then you walk the enemy into a position where you can simultaneously engage them from two or more angles, creating a crossfire. Such positions are generally called "kill zones", for obvious reasons.


Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Let's also remember that droids don't wear down. Attrition rates will be extremely low because they only way to stop them is to blast them to pieces, these droids won't retreat, they won't surrender. They'll keep blasting organics until the planet blows up. There is no need to get off the planet, if the attack fails, G0-T0 can just make more.
Droids do, in fact, wear down. Like any machine, they require routine maintenance to remain in peak functioning condition. However, by attrition, I was referring to losses incurred en route to the Academy. These losses could be from any number of environmental hazards, and remaining outside and exposed to the harsh conditions of Malachor would not be a viable position, even for droids.

And droids, especially extremely advanced models like an HK-50, are very expensive. All that durasteel, the advanced weapons they're armed with, the electronic components, sensors, and processors which are used in their construction, all these things require money. Lots of it. So while G0-T0 can produce the HK-50's at his factory, they aren't free. In fact, they represent a significant investment.

As for the Mass Shadow Generator, there is a very real chance that Bao-Dur will be assassinated by Traya's Sith before he can determine how to reactivate the MSG and brief G0-T0's forces on it. This is also assuming that he will be willing to cooperate with G0-T0, which might take some time and persuasion.

Bao-Dur is a suspicious and introverted individual, he prefers to take matters into his own hands and has some trust issues when it comes to large organizations (Militaries and corporations in particular). He despises criminals almost as much as he hates the Mandalorians, so G0-T0 would need to be very careful in approaching Bao-Dur. Kidnapped him isn't off the table, but it would make him unlikely to cooperate with G0-T0, and he's not the type to be broken by torture or threats. He has no family or friends to blackmail him with, and is more than capable of breaking out of most restraining facilities.

Again, I also need to emphasize that there is no evidence the MSG is buried in Malachor's surface. The fact of the matter is that we don't know what it really is or looks like. So it's equally plausible that Traya could relocate or destroy it, depending on her preference.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.10.2013 , 11:51 AM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
As for the Mass Shadow Generator, there is a very real chance that Bao-Dur will be assassinated by Traya's Sith before he can determine how to reactivate the MSG and brief G0-T0's forces on it. This is also assuming that he will be willing to cooperate with G0-T0, which might take some time and persuasion.

Bao-Dur is a suspicious and introverted individual, he prefers to take matters into his own hands and has some trust issues when it comes to large organizations (Militaries and corporations in particular). He despises criminals almost as much as he hates the Mandalorians, so G0-T0 would need to be very careful in approaching Bao-Dur. Kidnapped him isn't off the table, but it would make him unlikely to cooperate with G0-T0, and he's not the type to be broken by torture or threats. He has no family or friends to blackmail him with, and is more than capable of breaking out of most restraining facilities.
Bao-dur and G0-T0 both worked on the Telos Restoration Project. G0-T0 knows that Bao-dur works on Telos. How is Traya gonna know that, or the fact that Bao-dur even exists/ is still alive? G0-T0 won't have a problem locating Bao-dur, far before Traya does. He has Exchange contacts on Telos.

And honestly, it wouldn't be that hard to convince Bao-dur it's a good idea to pull the trigger on Malachor again. He had no reservations about it in KoTOR II (excluding the Exile). In fact, it seems he really wanted to destroy his mistake, erase the memory of all those deaths he had caused. Besides, G0-T0 just has to pull the "I'm aiding the Republic" card, and boom, Bao-dur is on board. He hates Sith, he'd be more than happy to see Traya dead.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.10.2013 , 12:01 PM | #273
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
The magnetic tracking missiles lock onto a signature that isn't masked by the cloaking device, allowing them to home in on the target regardless of whether the device is activated or not. The only problem is that unless you have a place to fire the weapon initially, it won't know what signature to lock onto. This problem can be worked around in two ways:

1. Sith with particular skill in Force Sight, or sensitivity to such disturbances in the Force, in the CIC can alert the missile batteries when the gravity well pulls the incoming ships back into realspace. They only need a direction and range to lock the missiles on target, and since the radius of the gravity well is a known constant, the Sith only need to provide the direction of the ship they sensed. Death by science.

2. I'm pretty sure that stealth fields can't be engaged when making the jump/transition to or from hyperspace. They're a serious drain on the ship's power plant, and running them continuously during a hyperspace jump (even if it were possible, which is not known for certain) would probably burn out the systems, or put undo strain which could damage them.

So, if pulled unexpectedly from hyperspace by the gravity well there would be a delay while the stealth fields were engaged. This would provide an additional window where the Sith warships could get additional targeting information before the cloaking devices kicked in, further enhancing the missile's lock on their magnetic signatures.
Option 1 is unlikely, these Sith displayed no skills in Force sight so we cannot make the assumption they have the ability. Granted they may sense a disturbance in the Force, but such a feeling is vague and unspefic, and will only 'work' if biologicals are involved.

Option 2 is far more likely, your right, hyperdrives take up large amounts of power and as seen in TCW episode stealth fields often have to be deactivated so other systems can operate. Likely G0-T0 would have them cloak moments before exiting hyperspace but as they will be caught off guard in this instance this is not possible.

However were talking about multiple vessels here, several small vessels is likely to minimize potential losses in such situations as these. I highly doubt they'll be able to track the magnetic signature of all of them in such a small space of time and without warning, perhaps a few or maybe only one. Several if not most will escape. Yet this does remove an element of surprise as they can alert the Academy of impending attack.

But concerning the planet itself, when Meetra approached the Academy she did not experience tremors, cave ins etc. granted we have to consider game mechanics etc. and their is substantial evidence to suggest Malachor is unstable. But these seismic events aren't likely going to be occurring all the time, and if they do they are avoidable. Some may be lost but there's plenty more to spare. On the topic of droids, yes they do were down/require maintenance etc. but assassin droids of such elite caliber are likely to be far more sturdy and durable than an average battle droid and likely have in-built repair systems/repair drones - or can be outfitted with some. And let's remember that for G0-T0, money is no object, as I'm sure Warren Stride will tell you. He has a HK Manufacturing Planet pumping out dozens of HK-50s across the galaxy. In this image alone we can see hundreds of units.

I also doubt the droids are going to attempt to stealth their way into the academy, draw some out first, kill them, then charge the place. As you say they'll likely have automated defenses filling that large entrance hall, but then we've got pillars that can be used as cover, and turrets are no match for a Hunter Killer droid. The assassins are likely also going to employ stealth tactics, and then will be caught of guard by anti-stealth tech. This gives the droids a significant advantage as they cannot so easily get up close and are suddenly completely vulnerable to disruptors, particle beam blasters, sonic weapons, concussion rifles, bolt casters etc. the same applies for the Sith who will soon pore into that room and be gunned down. They are completely defenseless against the HKs firepower.

And finally Bao-Dur, I think there are ways he could be persuaded. Firstly the opportunity to destroy the Sith and Malachor V would be an opportunity Bao-Dur would be interested in. But there are other things G0-T0 can offer him too, he could agree to withdraw the Exchange presence on Telos IV, or offer to aid him in driving off Czerka which he could not do alone. Also he could offer to give credits and supplies to the restoration project and the Republic's rebuilding efforts on the whole. However there is also the possibility that Traya could have him assassinated, or perhaps make him into his pawn, and have him sabotage G0-T0's efforts or perhaps even destroy him. Also there is the possibility Traya could escape, both routes need to be considered.

P.S. Concerning the MSG, no there is not any evidence that it is buried in Malachor's surface. But neither is their evidence it is not, nor does the Remote come across or interact with any consoles pertaining to it. We also have to consider that we have no reason to believe Traya has extensive knowledge of the MSG either, certainly not knowledge of its location, or have to move or destroy it. It obviously must be partially underground, else it would be visible from the surface, which it is not. But anyway, to avoid the realm of speculation let's just say to interact with the MSG you need Bao-Dur. Neither G0-T0 nor Traya are well versed in this kind of technology.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.10.2013 , 04:01 PM | #274
I don't mean to terse with you, Beni, but you're being a bit of a stubborn idiot when it comes to the HK assault team. Yes, their anti-stealth technology will surprise the Assassins... if the assassins confront the HKs alone, and the HKs are able to deploy the technology. But this assumes the HKs will not already be in the chaos of battle, etc. And honestly, the assassins are really more of a deterrent against organic targets.

Now, as for the scenario it seems you're envisioning. When I say "turret" I don't mean an automated blaster on a swivel mount. I mean a mounted assault cannon in a fixed position, sighted on the established kill zone, manned by a veteran Sith trooper. The Sith will not "pour into the room" to be massacred by the HKs. Quite the opposite. They'll be waiting and dug in, and will tear the droids to pieces. HKs are unshielded, and ion weapons would be standard issue for many Sith troopers, especially since its known that their enemy is a droid who employs other droids.

You've conveniently ignored any of the numerous strategies that could be used by Traya's forces to undermine the precious technological marvels that G0-T0 will purchase. The Sith troops under her command include numerous veterans of the Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War, people like Atton Rand and Azkul, who are ruthless and superbly trained. They have good armor, personal energy shields, and powerful weapons, as well as the advantages of defending a prepared position at numerous chokepoints. They will be supported by stealthed assassins and Sith Lords, who can use numerous Force powers to augment the firepower they already bring to bear, and if the fighting gets into close quarters they'll have the edge over the HKs because most if not all Sith Troopers are trained and equipped with vibroswords and other melee weapons.

As for the ships getting yanked out of hyperspace, I doubt they'll get off with only losing one or two craft. The Sith will bombard them with missiles, since they only have to worry about firing one volley before they lose their targeting information. Once locked, the missiles can't be shaken with the stealth fields, and the sheer volume of warheads will likely overwhelm whatever countermeasures G0-T0 happens to have equipped them with (which will be nothing out of the ordinary since he expects this to be a stealth mission and most of the space will go to fuel/ammo/HKs)

And even in the best of circumstances, I don't think you can activate your cloaking device before coming out of hyperspace. Those two systems, individually, seem to draw down the buik of a vessel's energy output. (especially a small craft which is probably already pushing the limits of its power plant by having a cloaking device).

As for the HK production plant, we're putting an awful lot of stock into a few background images that originated as cut content from a game. So it's a very loose interpretation of canon to even consider the factory in the first place. If it was cranking out hundreds of droids, G0-T0 wouldn't have had to send them at the Exile in small groups. The same goes for assuming that the MSG is inaccessible simply because you don't see a console for it in the rushed, choppy ending of KotOR II. I would say, if the device can be reactivated, it must be accessible. Now, you would certainly need the engineer who designed it if you wanted to carefully recalibrate and fire the weapon again, but if you want to destroy it? Just send some demolitions teams.

And if its very hard to find.... well how will Bao-Dur know where it is? It's not like he's visited the planet since it was crushed and reconfigured. To be honest, I'm not really sure why we're allowing the MSG, since it's become nothing more than an irritation at this point, and there's almost no concrete information on what it is and how it works. Will it work if moved to another planet? Maybe, but Malachor had some special gravitational thing going on that made it possible, so I guess it's only usable there. Is it buried underground? Not sure about that either. Well, could someone destroy it since it's basically a time bomb right next to their headquarters? Oh gosh, maybe it's super hard to reach, and so they can't sabotage it.

If the MSG cannot be deactivated, then it only makes sense, strategically, for Traya's forces to lay a series of elaborate traps around it and have a Quick Reaction Force standing by to swoop in and pummel the force sent to mess around with it. Then prepare the Academy's defenses and slaughter whoever attacks the Academy, while having shuttles prepared to evacuate and regroup with the fleet before heading off to somewhere else (NOT Korriban, it's so obvious it hurts) if it looks like G0-T0's troops might be able to activate the MSG after all.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.10.2013 , 04:42 PM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
I don't mean to terse with you, Beni, but you're being a bit of a stubborn idiot when it comes to the HK assault team. Yes, their anti-stealth technology will surprise the Assassins... if the assassins confront the HKs alone, and the HKs are able to deploy the technology. But this assumes the HKs will not already be in the chaos of battle, etc. And honestly, the assassins are really more of a deterrent against organic targets.
You know I'm just being devil's advocate with you here. If I wasn't Arbiter I'd be throwing everything I've got behind Traya, I'm just raising points on both sides to make sure the result is fair and everything is considered. And to avoid having a debate with myself, of course I'm going to refrain from raising points for the opposing side. I trust you to flag me up on those. That's the nature of debating.

However you make a good point again about they hyperspace scenario, but based on the fact that the Sith will respond with lightning efficiency. Before they know what's going on those vessels will begin decloaking, and start fleeing as quickly as they can. Granted they'll get a lock on several, perhaps even all, of their signatures. But G0-T0's ships are simply faster. And the Sith won't be able to effectively coordinate an attack via fighters based on magnetic signatures.

But anyway, concerning these 'mounted assault cannons' - your basing this on the assumption that Traya's forces have this at their disposal. And it is highly likely that they do not, not only have I never come across manned turrets in KOTOR I or 2 but in the Battle of Telos IV the Sith invasion force deploys automated turrets across Citadel Station, it is said as much during the conflict. So this is likely what will be deployed. HKs are unshielded? Possibly but G0-T0 could upgrade them with standard personal energy shields, if they don't have these already which they likely will. But yes, ion weapons would be effective. But just as effective as the advanced weaponry of G0-T0's forces will be against the Sith and the assassins.

Let's also not overestimate the capabilities of these commandos, for in the end they are footsoldiers. While the HKs are the best Hunter Killer droids that the galaxy has to offer - designed to kill Force sensitives. We're talking the IG series of their time. And we can guarantee they will be in numbers, yes the Exile encountered them in small groups but that was for the sake of stealth tactics, armies of HK-50 assassin droids charging across the galaxy is going to draw unwanted attention. And will remove an possibility of them posing as protocol droids. (And for the record, the factory is established canon, this has been done so through the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide and The New Essential Guide to Droids.) Ultimately though the HKs are outclassed by the Sith, however let's not forget this only has to be a distraction for the MSG to be reactivated. So success of failure is largely irrelevant.

Speaking of the MSG, yes, information is hazy, (but luckily we have K-Canon) but that's all we have to go on and we can't go making assumptions to suit our argument when we have no evidence to base it on. It seems perfectly plausible to me that the MSG is underground, else it would be effectively useless as once its activated the planet will be bombarded with debris and any structures overground will be destroyed. Including the MSG which will then be deactivated and the mass shadows will stop. So underground seems a given, this is supported by the fact that the Remote never interacts with the weapon directly, and we see no evidence of it on the planets surface. There may be some sort of underground passage to reach it, but this would seem counterintuive as well, your only going to be able activate it once, giving the massive amount of damage it does to the planet and the intense gravity it produces. Nor would you have any reason to activate it again. Its not designed to be reactivated. However Bao-Dur evidently found a way. And seeing as the device is underground, and reactivating it doesn't actually involve interacting with it directly, Traya has nothing to guard/booby trap.

Despite all this, an evacuation you say is likely. And I reckon it will be to Korriban, obvious yes, but where else can she go? (Not Dxun.) And isn't the best way of defeating G0-T0 exhausting his forces? An attack on Korriban will be a lot harder as G0-T0's forces actually have to win. They have no superweapon to rely on this time, and Traya has the time to start crippling G0-T0's powerbase.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
03.11.2013 , 11:29 AM | #276
Let G0-T0 come.

Traya lets G0-T0 come to Malachor V, she waits and waits, until his forces are drawn into battle, she begins evacuating her forces(most of which are actually waiting in a nearby system), let Bao-Dur activate the MSG, then she instantly uses the previously unused gravity well generators on two of her interdictors and the tractor beams to pull his ships into Malachor's range, G0-T0's main forces are annihilated but better yet, she makes it look like her entire force is wiped out, G0-T0 thinks he has won or at least crippled his opponent.

Traya is no longer there though and only 25% of her forces were there, a force size which G0-T0 does not actually know anything of. only what it may consist of not the exact numbers, given the number at which the Jedi and Sith were eradicated due to the wars, then the lack of numbers would be consistent with popular belief, obviously G0-T0's remaining forces are technologically advanced enough to see any fleeing ships, ships he'll track, something Traya again allows.

She then sets up her base at Korriban, she heavily defends it with another 25% of her forces, this time the most elite Sith troopers she has, which will obviously be overwhelmed due to numbers, they are ordered to fight till the last man in the academy, but G0-T0 isn't stupid, he'll obviously search the bowels of the tombs in the Valley of the Dark Lords, this is when the typical trick is played, she places the body of any old Echani or simply grey-haired woman in the bowels of the tomb of Naga Sadow, but droids aren't idiots and this is an obvious decoy, G0-T0 would be obviously suspicious given the decoy so he orders a full search of the academy and the valley.

Obviously Korriban was not her true base and in the forgotten tomb of Ludo Kressh, something the droids and mercenaries will not overlook, will be a cache of abandoned datapads, etc... pointing to Ziost, which she declares the rendezvous point for her forces.

It is here that Traya places another 25% of her forces, this time hosts of Sith Marauders and Dark Jedi, with beast masters and almost all of her elite units, but not her assassins, this should be a no fuss traditional Sith battle on the planet, a real last stand, not only that but she'll put three of her Interdictors in orbit around the planet, leaving four left.(The KotOR CG confirms Nihilus' fleet consisted of nine with the Ravager), it is here that she sets up bombs to have her base explode completely once his forces are inside, better yet, she'll leave another decoy looking like her in video footage, or she edits some in, to make it look like she was in the base when it exploded.

Then over the coming months she spreads her remaining 25% of forces thin, to the point where G0-T0 would give up any search and allow his assumption that her forces and herself were destroyed at Ziost, at the same time she uses the network of assassins she has to track and locate the smaller groups of Hk-50s that G0-T0 has, which are either decommissioned or switched off entirely, perhaps he uses these droids still for other purposes, such as enforcing his rule, either way, they will either lead her forces to the factory or better yet:

She eventually manages to capture either one or three, it matters not, of these droids so she is able to interrogate them until the factory on Telos IV is discovered from either it's databanks or it's own admittance, if the droids have a self destruct, she is a smart woman, she'll have the droids stunned or ion'd into submission, where she pries information from it's datacore.

From here she invades and takes over G0-T0's most prized droid factory and takes them from him, this means she has the most efficient assassination and stealth network possible, the very generously gifted shields and stealth generators that G0-T0 has used to upgrade his particular models will make tracking out Nar Shaadda all too easy.

G0-T0 has lost his Hks and perhaps better yet, the horror stories from the battles with the Sith will make recruiting more mercenaries and bounty hunters extremely difficult regardless of the price.

Traya only has to setup what will be a blockade along the hyperspace lanes to the smuggler's moon and allow her combination of Hk-50s and Sith Assassins to track down anyone with knowledge using stealth, the right people are abducted and interrogated, possibly drugged, the inevitable tip that G0-T0's strangle on the moon itself will give Traya the perfect trap, load any incoming traffic she forces out of hyperspace, load all the freighters she can with her assassin droids and Sith, let G0-T0's yacht, which will now likely be defended by very little in comparison to earlier times, capture these ships and watch as his ship has it's databanks drained of all information and then watch as it is destroyed from the inside.
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
Battle Honour

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.11.2013 , 11:35 AM | #277
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But anyway, concerning these 'mounted assault cannons' - your basing this on the assumption that Traya's forces have this at their disposal. And it is highly likely that they do not, not only have I never come across manned turrets in KOTOR I or 2 but in the Battle of Telos IV the Sith invasion force deploys automated turrets across Citadel Station, it is said as much during the conflict. So this is likely what will be deployed. HKs are unshielded? Possibly but G0-T0 could upgrade them with standard personal energy shields, if they don't have these already which they likely will. But yes, ion weapons would be effective. But just as effective as the advanced weaponry of G0-T0's forces will be against the Sith and the assassins.
Just because you never encountered troopers manning defensive emplacements doesn't mean the Sith wouldn't use them. The game mechanics of KotOR prohibit many things, such as taking cover in a firefight, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have happened "historically". We know that the Sith had ready access to repeating blasters, and would make good use of them when planning their deployment.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Let's also not overestimate the capabilities of these commandos, for in the end they are footsoldiers.
Are you belittling the skills of footsoldiers? Most of the "footsoldiers" I've known have been skilled infantrymen, and infantry excel at defensive warfare more so than any other type of troops. Furthermore, most of the troops stationed in the Trayus Academy are Sith Commandos, who would be extensively trained in addition to being seasoned combat veterans. They are described as such by Wookiepedia:

Quote:
"Sith troopers were the primary infantry units for the Sith Triumvirate during the Dark Wars. [...] average Sith troopers were armed with Sith Assault Gun and Sith sniper rifle for ranged combat and well as standard stun batons and vibroblades for close quarters combat. All types of Sith troopers were issued with vibroblades for close quarters combat and may have been issued with Sith energy shields as well. [...] The weak would be siphoned out through the merciless Sith training schemes, resulting in an efficient and powerful fighting force."

"Sith commandos were elite Sith soldiers [...] They usually wore scarlet red armor and were issued light repeating blasters."

"Commandos seen at the Battle of Telos IV during the First Jedi Purge wore silver-colored armor. During the purge, the Sith Triumvirate deployed commandos on Dxun, Onderon, Citadel Station in orbit above Telos IV, the Ravager, and at the Trayus Academy on Malachor V."

"Sith elite gunners wore copper-colored battle suits. They were often armed with disruptor rifles, which were capable of penetrating personal deflector shields."

"Sith grenadiers were known to use grenades, mostly fragmentation or concussion types. They also wielded blaster pistols. They were also known to use thermal detonators in battle."
So the Sith forces at the Trayus Academy represent a well-armed and effective unit. They have disruptors, ion weapons, and repeating blasters, in addition to personal energy shields and melee weapons. They will easily carve up any assaulting force that tries to breach the Academy.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
It seems perfectly plausible to me that the MSG is underground, else it would be effectively useless as once its activated the planet will be bombarded with debris and any structures overground will be destroyed. Including the MSG which will then be deactivated and the mass shadows will stop.
The Trayus Academy survived, it was just moved partially underground by the disruptions of Malachor V.

The Mass Shadow Generator isn't still causing the effects on Malachor, either. It was a one time event, used to manipulate the gravitational anomalies present in the system, causing tremendous damage to the area around the planet it was activated on. It could very well have been located on or near the surface of the planet, since otherwise it would be impossible to interface with it. The fact of the matter is that if it can be accessed by G0-T0's forces, then there must also be a way for Traya to access it, even if it is to only demolish it with explosives and prepare a trap for G0-T0's droids when they come to activate it.

Really, the only basis for assuming that the MSG is inaccessible is because we didn't see it physically appear in KotOR II. However, this is a very thin assumption because the entire segment with the Remote and G0-T0 on the planet barely made it into the game. For all we know, the interactions with the ship's drive cores was only part of the process originally intended to activate the MSG. Since at least part of Remote's activities on Malachor V happened "off-screen", perhaps he first visited the MSG and primed it before setting off to power up the reactors needed to operate it.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.11.2013 , 11:50 AM | #278
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
*snip*
That's kind of a really complicated way to wipe out 75% of your own force for no good reason. Any plan that relies on your enemy falling for a series of ruses is a fragile one at best, and it sacrifices the initiative.

Better would be to intercept G0-T0's force by yanking it out of hyperspace with a few Interdictors, and have the rest of the fleet waiting right where the edge of the gravity well is. When the ships are pulled out of hyperspace, they launch all their missiles and let them track the magnetic signatures, probably wiping out the bulk of G0-T0's ships in a flurry of seeking missiles.

Have a Sith Lord who can sense organics on the bridge of each warship, providing further detection of G0-T0's fleet when it is pulled from hyperspace. Comb the wreckage of the transports for any intact memory cores or components of HK-50s to gather intel on the factory.

The few transports that escape will make their way down to Malachor, where the Sith will have prepared the Academy for a defensive operation. A mobile strike force is positioned near the MSG, waiting to ambush the party that comes to activate it when they wander into the traps prepared for them. Most of this fighting will be in the tunnels and caverns where the ship's reactors were located, and this will be suitable for the Sith Assassins and Sith Lords as well as the Sith Commandos, who have a penchant for close in, brutal fighting.

Having dealt serious damage to G0-T0's forces, possibly wiping them out entirely, Traya's forces will then be in a position to strike back at a considerable advantage.

Should the strike force fail to eliminate the droids sent to reactivate the MSG quickly, and it becomes a protracted battle, then the Academy will begin an evacuation in a swift, orderly fashion (they'll have prepared for this possibility). The last few troops on the line will be left to hold the Academy while everyone else regroups with the fleet far outside Malachor's orbit. Either way, G0-T0 is losing everyone he sends to Malachor, and at minimal cost to the Sith defenders.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
03.11.2013 , 11:54 AM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
That's kind of a really complicated way to wipe out 75% of your own force for no good reason. Any plan that relies on your enemy falling for a series of ruses is a fragile one at best, and it sacrifices the initiative.

Better would be to intercept G0-T0's force by yanking it out of hyperspace with a few Interdictors, and have the rest of the fleet waiting right where the edge of the gravity well is. When the ships are pulled out of hyperspace, they launch all their missiles and let them track the magnetic signatures, probably wiping out the bulk of G0-T0's ships in a flurry of seeking missiles.

Have a Sith Lord who can sense organics on the bridge of each warship, providing further detection of G0-T0's fleet when it is pulled from hyperspace. Comb the wreckage of the transports for any intact memory cores or components of HK-50s to gather intel on the factory.

The few transports that escape will make their way down to Malachor, where the Sith will have prepared the Academy for a defensive operation. A mobile strike force is positioned near the MSG, waiting to ambush the party that comes to activate it when they wander into the traps prepared for them. Most of this fighting will be in the tunnels and caverns where the ship's reactors were located, and this will be suitable for the Sith Assassins and Sith Lords as well as the Sith Commandos, who have a penchant for close in, brutal fighting.

Having dealt serious damage to G0-T0's forces, possibly wiping them out entirely, Traya's forces will then be in a position to strike back at a considerable advantage.

Should the strike force fail to eliminate the droids sent to reactivate the MSG quickly, and it becomes a protracted battle, then the Academy will begin an evacuation in a swift, orderly fashion (they'll have prepared for this possibility). The last few troops on the line will be left to hold the Academy while everyone else regroups with the fleet far outside Malachor's orbit. Either way, G0-T0 is losing everyone he sends to Malachor, and at minimal cost to the Sith defenders.
Either way, through elaborate deception or typical Sith strength, G0-T0 really can't win this war, he relies on 1.Droids that can be stopped and reprogrammed or 2.Mercenaries/Bounty Hunters who might just figure out this isn't worth the credits.

My reasoning for fooling G0-T0 is that given the loss of his forces, he will feel naked against Traya's forces and will go through any number of avenues to get under her radar and try again.

If he thinks he's won, he won't suspect a thing.
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
Battle Honour

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.11.2013 , 12:12 PM | #280
Let him run, then. No sense sacrificing the advantage and letting him regroup and rebuild.

Once his assault fails, press hard. Send assassins to search Nar Shadaa for information on G0-T0, talk to other Exchange bosses and work to undermine him. Criminals will always betray each other, in fact almost every Exchange boss we meet in KotOR is trying to kill his boss and supplant him. Turn this against G0-T0 by making it clear that the Sith will support whoever betrays him first, and reveal that he's nothing more than a glorified administrative droid who's played them for fools and squandered his forces in a suicidal assault on Malachor V.

He has credits? Turn that against him as well. Spread the word that G0-T0 has plenty of money and the Sith will kill him and give the cash to whoever helped them find him.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell