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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
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LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
03.10.2013 , 03:39 AM | #311
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
TOR bombed anyway, due to many bad decisions that were made in the early days.
Questionable, retention % was middling as MMOs go and the last report of subscriber numbers before F2P had them at 'well over' 500k which put it at one of the most popular subscription MMOs. It is hard to see that things have changed much since F2P when many servers are reporting increases in population.

Unless your definition of tanked is 'didn't do as well as WoW' I can't see how it can be considered to have tanked. Not matched expectations certainly, but not tanked.

As to the topic, there has been no indication that SGRs promised with Makeb have been cancelled. An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Save the hysterics for when they are warranted.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
03.10.2013 , 05:09 AM | #312
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I don't recall them saying there'd be anymore to their SGR than that, when they said they would put in SGR. Did I miss a post?
Without scouring previous posts and updates from BW:A I'd say it's probably arguable that you're right, and that they may never have actually said that the same sex content (that they themselves said they intended to include at launch but couldn't) was ever intended to be equal to the heterosexual content. Maybe it's a huge assumption on the behalf of everyone who's been rooting for SGRAs.

But if that's the case (and it's a pretty darn big 'if') they have had over a year to tell us that. We've been calling for open dialogue on the matter since before launch. One need only read the content of the 6 or so reiterations of this very thread to become very aware that equal romances are what we've been expecting. If they have no intention of providing same sex content that's equal to the opposite sex content and they've paid any attention to these forums (which they've repeatedly assured us that they do) then they've watched us making assumptions about their intentions to provide equal romantic arcs and have wilfully let us remain ignorant. That's not just negligent, it's downright cruel.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
03.10.2013 , 05:11 AM | #313
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDrusilla View Post
As to the topic, there has been no indication that SGRs promised with Makeb have been cancelled. An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Save the hysterics for when they are warranted.
I find it surprising that people might seriously be considering that the same sex content in Makeb might be cancelled. Considering how long it took them to release even that information I doubt they'd have done so without being very certain it was going in.
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.10.2013 , 05:43 AM | #314
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
I find it surprising that people might seriously be considering that the same sex content in Makeb might be cancelled. Considering how long it took them to release even that information I doubt they'd have done so without being very certain it was going in.
It's not many people. It's only me when I'm feeling a bit negative.

And yes, I am still of the mindset that Bioware are only giving one or two token [Flirt]s which will not have any reaction beyond "We don't do that here, it's a war zone" regardless of how straight [Flirt]s are handled. Bioware seem happy for me to labour under that assumption and to tell it to others, so they must have some stake in keeping that assumption going (that is, assuming they still read this thread. It's unlikely given that Mr. Gonzalez and Ms. Berryman, the only two people who ever came close to "handling" this situation, have left.)

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
03.10.2013 , 07:01 AM | #315
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Without scouring previous posts and updates from BW:A I'd say it's probably arguable that you're right, and that they may never have actually said that the same sex content (that they themselves said they intended to include at launch but couldn't) was ever intended to be equal to the heterosexual content. Maybe it's a huge assumption on the behalf of everyone who's been rooting for SGRAs.

But if that's the case (and it's a pretty darn big 'if') they have had over a year to tell us that. We've been calling for open dialogue on the matter since before launch. One need only read the content of the 6 or so reiterations of this very thread to become very aware that equal romances are what we've been expecting. If they have no intention of providing same sex content that's equal to the opposite sex content and they've paid any attention to these forums (which they've repeatedly assured us that they do) then they've watched us making assumptions about their intentions to provide equal romantic arcs and have wilfully let us remain ignorant. That's not just negligent, it's downright cruel.
I see what you're saying, but to be fair, it's not really something they have to do [telling us how far they're planning to go with SGR], and for their part, likely a good way to keep a few players continuing to subscribe and possibly spend money on the cash shop.

I'd like some SGR content equal to the OGR romance companion storylines, though admittedly I'm not the adamant one who needs it for every class, just because.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
03.10.2013 , 09:58 AM | #316
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDrusilla View Post
Unless your definition of tanked is 'didn't do as well as WoW' I can't see how it can be considered to have tanked. Not matched expectations certainly, but not tanked.
TOR was reported to have sold 2 million copies of the game when it came out but went down to 200k-500k subs in the months after that. That's what I meant when I said 'tanked'.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
It's not many people. It's only me when I'm feeling a bit negative.
And yes, I am still of the mindset that Bioware are only giving one or two token [Flirt]s which will not have any reaction beyond "We don't do that here, it's a war zone" regardless of how straight [Flirt]s are handled.
Without knowing anything more than you do about it, I'm thinking you may be a bit pessismistic here. We know there won't be full fledged romances coming with Makeb, but I do expect there'll be at least some meaningful flirts and not just cheap one-night-stands with a dancer in a night club (no offense, night club dancers).

I may be wrong, but we'll see once the expansion is out.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.10.2013 , 10:06 AM | #317
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Without knowing anything more than you do about it, I'm thinking you may be a bit pessismistic here. We know there won't be full fledged romances coming with Makeb, but I do expect there'll be at least some meaningful flirts and not just cheap one-night-stands with a dancer in a night club (no offense, night club dancers).

I may be wrong, but we'll see once the expansion is out.
I've not been having a very optimistic week.

I did send a rather long message to Mr. Musco asking him various questions regarding SGR/A's both in Makeb and in the game at large. Obviously I don't expect a response - Mr. Hood isn't talking about the [Flirt]s anymore and he's the one who wrote them.

It's just... I don't have very high expectations for the same-sex content on Makeb largely because they aren't talking about it. You'd talk about something you're excited about, right? You'd hint at talking about it if you weren't allowed to yet, right? But they aren't doing anything like that, so that makes me wonder if they're actually proud of what they've put into Makeb or if they rushed it through just to make us shut up for a couple of months. And, honestly, given how SGRA's were handled up to Mr. Hickman mentioning it in the blog post, I can't help but feel that Bioware: Austin just doesn't care.

That's not to say I don't want to have really interesting moments and a planet-based story romance (but Mr. Gonzalez did say we're not getting that, just [Flirt]s), but I don't expect that to happen.

Edit: Here we are - SGRs are coming in Makeb. SGRs are not the same as full blown romances, which one would assume include those romances which happen with non-companion NPCs, like Sergeant Jaxo and that guy in the Inquisitor storyline.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
03.10.2013 , 10:14 AM | #318
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I've not been having a very optimistic week.
I did send a rather long message to Mr. Musco asking him various questions regarding SGR/A's both in Makeb and in the game at large. Obviously I don't expect a response - Mr. Hood isn't talking about the [Flirt]s anymore and he's the one who wrote them.
It's just... I don't have very high expectations for the same-sex content on Makeb largely because they aren't talking about it. You'd talk about something you're excited about, right? You'd hint at talking about it if you weren't allowed to yet, right? But they aren't doing anything like that, so that makes me wonder if they're actually proud of what they've put into Makeb or if they rushed it through just to make us shut up for a couple of months. And, honestly, given how SGRA's were handled up to Mr. Hickman mentioning it in the blog post, I can't help but feel that Bioware: Austin just doesn't care.
That's not to say I don't want to have really interesting moments and a planet-based story romance (but Mr. Gonzalez did say we're not getting that, just [Flirt]s), but I don't expect that to happen.
I don't know, but I think at this point talking about SGR in Makeb would probably be spoiling it, guessing that it's not a huge part of the expansion. So I can forgive them for it.

I DO expect them to come forward with info though on how future (SGR) romance content in TOR will be handled.

I do expect changes here to both OGR and SGR implementation (no idea why, just a hunch) so I'm looking forward to more info on that, guessing they won't give us any until Makeb has at least come out.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Edit: Here we are - SGRs are coming in Makeb. SGRs are not the same as full blown romances, which one would assume include those romances which happen with non-companion NPCs, like Sergeant Jaxo and that guy in the Inquisitor storyline.
I remember that quote, but still my expectation would be at least fade-to-black-plus, you know? Something a little more deep than that. But then again, it wouldn't be the first time I'm disappointed after having hung my expectations too high.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.10.2013 , 10:24 AM | #319
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I don't know, but I think at this point talking about SGR in Makeb would probably be spoiling it, guessing that it's not a huge part of the expansion. So I can forgive them for it.

I DO expect them to come forward with info though on how future (SGR) romance content in TOR will be handled.

I do expect changes here to both OGR and SGR implementation (no idea why, just a hunch) so I'm looking forward to more info on that, guessing they won't give us any until Makeb has at least come out.
I mentioned both those things (in the capacity of equal amounts of options as well as people able to end romances) in two different PMs I've sent to Mr. Musco, so, assuming that he reads my message and doesn't just delete it, at least he's partially aware that there's someone who thinks so things are important.

And... yeah :/ We are rather far away from Makeb's release (when is Spring, anyway?) so it's unlikely they'll talk about that stuff for a while yet. Still... meh.

I know I shouldn't expect them to be talking about SGRA stuff, they're barely able to talk about class balancing on the PTS.

Alorithan's Avatar


Alorithan
03.10.2013 , 11:52 AM | #320
Hmm...I gotta say I'm actually for it as a straight male, but as a straight male I don't like the idea of having the option for my character if that makes sense, because I don't feel he swings that way. Honestly what I think they should have done is make romances an optional setting. For instance, if you turned off romance of any kind, anytime there was a flirt option it would just be a different standard option instead. But you could do that with either same sex or opposite sex. That way someone playing a straight character wouldn't see that his character potentially wants to hit on those of the same sex, or vice versa even. Or you could leave on both or turn both off. It's too late for that now as it would require new voiceovers for tons of options and the like, but on the implementation of same sex I feel it's something that could be done since it hasn't been implemented yet.