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So question about the Clone wars itself

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
So question about the Clone wars itself

Damatese's Avatar


Damatese
03.09.2013 , 09:34 PM | #1
What if by some odd chance the Separatist started to win and say the Republic start to suffer heavy losses? Do Dooku then ordered the Separatist to go in derp mode so the republic can recover or will Sidious had finish off the republic and head up the Confederacy instead?

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
03.09.2013 , 09:41 PM | #2
I'm no Aurbere, but here's my view. Sidious and Dooku worked together. To Sidious, regardless, he would win. If you take note, Dooku had the Death Star plans since Geonosis. Meaning, the Confederacy and the soon-to-be Empire both had a plan, in case everything went to hell. Obviously, if the Senate were stormed when the Republic lost, the Chancellor would be spared. (Jedi and spectators would think it was just another attempt at money, a hostage situation.)
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Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.10.2013 , 04:57 AM | #3
While that seems like the smart thing to do, that probably wasn't Sidious' plan.

Early on in the war, the Separatists were heavily advantaged. They had numbers and good commanders to lead them, so Sidious basically ordered them into a suicidal offensive at Kamino to kill off the best Separatist commanders early on to prevent them from gaining an edge. The only reason the ambush at Coruscant (a desperate ploy in and of itself) worked was because Sidious deliberately drew the Republic fleets off into the Outer Rim Sieges.

I think that the CIS was always intended to lose, and Sidious made certain of it all along.
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SNCommand's Avatar


SNCommand
03.10.2013 , 05:23 AM | #4
Easier to assume control of a system you already rule and which you have heavily centralized, the confederacy is to diverse and loosely organized to be turned into the Empire
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Forgon's Avatar


Forgon
03.10.2013 , 06:01 AM | #5
The CIS was created to be destroyed. Propaganda would make them the constant threat to push the Senate to give Palpatine more power while Sidious made sure the war dragged out long enough with enough crises to always make the populace scared. If the CIS ever got an advantage that Sidious believed would change the war too much in their favor, he would make sure it was destroyed by any means necessary such as leaking "intelligence" that would allow the Republic to destroy the threat.
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.10.2013 , 06:16 AM | #6
Interesting thought, but let's remember that Dooku was aware and apart of Sidious' plan to take over the Republic from the inside and establish a new Sith Empire. What Dooku did not know however is that he had no part in this vision. He also had a misguided view that the Jedi Order would be forcibly indoctrinated into the dark side of the Force and become the 'Fist of the Empire', some sort of Sith Army.

But basically, Dooku was in on Sidious' plan and therefore would never have let the Sepratists win, he had no intention of that ever happening. So if the Republic suddenly started taking heavy losses he would ensure the Separatists victory was short lived. If Dooku had been killed, say, during the Battle of Geonosis, then this might actually have happened and I'm not sure what Sidious would have done. Likely make Grievous a temporary pawn until a replacement could be found, it would certainly place a major spanner in the works however.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
03.10.2013 , 07:49 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by jedimasterjac View Post
I'm no Aurbere,
Lol

Quote: Originally Posted by jedimasterjac View Post
but here's my view. Sidious and Dooku worked together. To Sidious, regardless, he would win. If you take note, Dooku had the Death Star plans since Geonosis. Meaning, the Confederacy and the soon-to-be Empire both had a plan, in case everything went to hell. Obviously, if the Senate were stormed when the Republic lost, the Chancellor would be spared. (Jedi and spectators would think it was just another attempt at money, a hostage situation.)
To be honest i think Palpatine always intended for the Republic to win.
More people believed that the republic stood for Peace and Justice, and a lot of people believed that the CIS were the cause of the war. The Rebellion would have had a lot more support if the CIS were the ones to establish the new Galactic Empire.... Besides, it wouldnt make sense for Palpatine to suddenly turn round and become the figurehead of the Seperatists, and he wanted to be openly in control of the Military IMO...
And he couldnt do that if he turned Seppie now could he?

I just think there are too many flaws with this plan.
Plus, did anyone even think to think of the Clones? What would happen to them if The Seperatists won? I do believe Palpatine wanted a human army, as it is much harder for Jedi to control their emotions when they are staring others deep emotions right in the face in combat, and its a lot harder for "Freedom Fighters" at first realising they are killing Humans. Then of course theres the fact he realised if any army was to oppose him, they would have to deal with Conscientious Objectors so to speak...

/2-cents

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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.10.2013 , 09:22 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Lol
I think we've got ourselves a new expression.
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
To be honest i think Palpatine always intended for the Republic to win.
More people believed that the republic stood for Peace and Justice, and a lot of people believed that the CIS were the cause of the war. The Rebellion would have had a lot more support if the CIS were the ones to establish the new Galactic Empire.... Besides, it wouldnt make sense for Palpatine to suddenly turn round and become the figurehead of the Seperatists, and he wanted to be openly in control of the Military IMO...
And he couldnt do that if he turned Seppie now could he?

I just think there are too many flaws with this plan.
Plus, did anyone even think to think of the Clones? What would happen to them if The Seperatists won? I do believe Palpatine wanted a human army, as it is much harder for Jedi to control their emotions when they are staring others deep emotions right in the face in combat, and its a lot harder for "Freedom Fighters" at first realising they are killing Humans. Then of course theres the fact he realised if any army was to oppose him, they would have to deal with Conscientious Objectors so to speak...

/2-cents
Agreed. Also lets not forget that almost everyone in the galaxy thought the Republic was corrupt, but there were two camps: those who thought the CIS were the solution, those who thought the Republic could be fixed. So by winning the war for the Republic and reforming it into an Empire not only did he satisfy the people of the Republic by removing the Separatist threat and fixing the Republic, but he also partially placated former separatists who wanted to 'start over'. Everyone wins, sort of.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.10.2013 , 10:38 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Interesting thought, but let's remember that Dooku was aware and apart of Sidious' plan to take over the Republic from the inside and establish a new Sith Empire. What Dooku did not know however is that he had no part in this vision. He also had a misguided view that the Jedi Order would be forcibly indoctrinated into the dark side of the Force and become the 'Fist of the Empire', some sort of Sith Army.

But basically, Dooku was in on Sidious' plan and therefore would never have let the Sepratists win, he had no intention of that ever happening. So if the Republic suddenly started taking heavy losses he would ensure the Separatists victory was short lived. If Dooku had been killed, say, during the Battle of Geonosis, then this might actually have happened and I'm not sure what Sidious would have done. Likely make Grievous a temporary pawn until a replacement could be found, it would certainly place a major spanner in the works however.
I don't know, this interpretation really seems to undermine Dooku's character and cheapen him, reducing him to a cartoon villain.

From his conversations with Obi-Wan on Geonosis, you see that Dooku believes in the Separatists and wants to break away from the corruption of the Republic. It is never made clear that Sidious has revealed to Dooku that he intends for the Republic to win, but rather that they are playing both sides of the conflict in order to maximize the damage to the Jedi Order and destroy them via Order 66 (the ultimate goal of the Rule of Two being "destroy the Jedi")

There is nothing to indicate that following the destruction of the Jedi, which would considerably weaken the Clone Army, that the CIS would not then proceed to steamroll the Republic. Sidious could remain the elusive Sith Lord hologram, Dooku would play the charismatic figurehead of the new Galactic Order, and the Jedi would be destroyed.

Count Dooku was recruited to the Sith after he became disenchanted with the Republic and the Jedi, and so his training as Sidious' apprentice was building on his Separatist tendencies. It would make no sense for him to switch back over to the Republic since he was such a high profile leader of the Separatists. Sidious, on the other hand, maintained two identities. The Chancellor could always be presumed dead, and Sidious would never have to reveal himself to the galaxy.

Of course, I think he always planned on killing Dooku and replacing him with Anakin, but Dooku would hardly have known that.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
03.10.2013 , 10:55 AM | #10
I only point to one thing.

Palpatine could of never pulled off order 66 if the separatists had won. Remember Palpatine's plan was to weaken the jedi order and have them fighting a war that had most of their knights separated and alone completely dependent on the Grand army.

Separatists were merely a means to an end for Palpatine.
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