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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.08.2013 , 06:51 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

[LIST]
[*]There insectoid bodies possess a strong, chitinous exoskeleton which acts as a natural armour making them able to shrug off injuries that would cripple most other species e.g. a bash from a storm beast. It also protects them from nerve or pressure point strikes to neck and shoulders, techniques Sith assassins are likely to use.
This isn't the Karate Kid, no one actually uses "pressure point strikes" when you're trying to assassinate your target. It would be either a vibroblade in the back, or a blaster shot to the back of the head.

Not to mention, the only real pressure points on a humanoid are the eyes and jugular notch. Can't stand that hippie nonsense when it comes to "pressure point strikes" and Vulcan death grips or what have you.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.08.2013 , 07:14 PM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
(A somewhat lengthy summary of the stage of the debate so far.)

How G0-T0 would locate and destroy Traya if she fled to Korriban < this IMO is the most important factor we need to consider, as it is the most likely outcome if G0-T0's plan fails.
That was a very nice summary.

Im still a little if-y on this whole "Traya will sense the attack coming" stuff. Again, I offer the example of the Emperor and the Death Star. He was te greatest Sith in all of history and no stranger to force visions. And yet, when his fortress underwent a full-scale invasion, he was sure he would win. Similarly, Traya will not have anything to tell her she's not going to be the victor until its too late.

To expand on this, Traya has never exhibited too much foresight, other than the fortune telling at the very end. She was betrayed by Sion and Nilius and didn't foresee it. She didn't flee Malachor then. I'm confused as to why G0-T0s assault is different.

On where Traya will go, I assume we're assuming it's Korriban? G0-T0 is kinda a history nut. For sure when it comes to Revan. He would obviously know of Korriban. And if you're facing a Sith Lord in an all out war, and they disappear.... Where else would they go?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.09.2013 , 12:36 AM | #253
There's that part where the bulk of G0-T0's forces will be destroyed by Traya's fleet while attempting to reach Malachor V, especially if gravity well generators are deployed defensively. That kinda throws a wrench in any invasion plans.

The first step to launching an invasion is to have a fleet that can support your invasion. G0-T0's naval assets are close to nothing, so he's going to need to address this problem before he can hope to sneak more than a shuttle or two onto Malachor V.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.09.2013 , 05:56 AM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
There's that part where the bulk of G0-T0's forces will be destroyed by Traya's fleet while attempting to reach Malachor V, especially if gravity well generators are deployed defensively. That kinda throws a wrench in any invasion plans.

The first step to launching an invasion is to have a fleet that can support your invasion. G0-T0's naval assets are close to nothing, so he's going to need to address this problem before he can hope to sneak more than a shuttle or two onto Malachor V.
A fleet cannot orbit Malachor. It's gravity is too strong, and they would be pulled out of orbit. Or something like that. Maybe it's that the storms would ruin ther engines or something. But as we can see in KotOR2, there is no fleet above Malachor.

Question: does Traya have the powerbases of Sion and Nilius?

Also, all of G0-T0s forces have ships of their own (save HKs). And if you argue that they don't, this is probably where the Zhug Brothers come in. They have plenty of ships, they're duros after all. But also, G0-T0 is centered on Nar Shaddaa. He will easily be able to buy ships. And don't forget that the Exchange is no slouch. They have ships of their own as well. For quality we can look to G0-T0s yacht and the Ebon Hawk.

G0-T0 is no stranger to stealth tech. Equit a few ships with generators that he undoubtably has on hand, and G0-T0 has the means and the ability to get to Malachor and past this fleet, if its there.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
03.09.2013 , 05:59 AM | #255
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Question: does Traya have the powerbases of Sion and Nilius?
Yes she does, also, Malachor V must have a safe route, otherwise the Sith would be risking death just trying to get on and off it.
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
Battle Honour

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.09.2013 , 06:30 AM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Yes she does.
So G0-T0 has the powerbases of all the other Exchange bosses?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
03.09.2013 , 06:41 AM | #257
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
So G0-T0 has the powerbases of all the other Exchange bosses?
Beni never said that, Traya has had Sion and Nihilus' personal powerbases ever since she entered the tourney.
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
Battle Honour

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.09.2013 , 06:45 AM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
This isn't the Karate Kid, no one actually uses "pressure point strikes" when you're trying to assassinate your target. It would be either a vibroblade in the back, or a blaster shot to the back of the head.

Not to mention, the only real pressure points on a humanoid are the eyes and jugular notch. Can't stand that hippie nonsense when it comes to "pressure point strikes" and Vulcan death grips or what have you.
Well lets first consider what weapon the Sith assassins use, double-bladed force pikes. Not exactly a vibroblade or a blaster, however at maximum power setting it could cut through flesh and bone. Even so it still relies on wacks and thwacks to deal damage. And pressure points aside, a chitinous exoskeleton is going to good protection for those kind of attacks, although by no means immune.

One thing I did not mention, Trandoshans and Gand have very acute eye sight, as do HK-50 droids. Making them more able to detect incoming Sith assassins. Remember that when the Exile was attacked by assassins, she managed to see them at the last moment (game mechanic I know, but based on truth) and these guys would be able to do that to much greater effect. Lose that element of surprise and suddenly it become harder for the assassins to bring their pikes to bear.

And concerning Traya's 'foresight', I remember on multiple occassions Traya making comments on the coming future as if she could see it. And despite being near death, what she did on Malachor V was extremely impressive. And we also have to consider that the Trayus Core heightens her abilities. Of course this leads us to her betrayal, but then lets remember that Nihilus is a wound in the Force and therefore 'unseeable' and he could have used that ability to disguise his and Sion's intentions. Now I'm not saying she will foresee her death, but she may very well foresee and impending attack. And if G0-T0 chooses to use biologicals, she will likely sense their presence through the Force.

And finally concerning powerbases, Traya has the assets of Nihilus and Sion because they were under her direct command and therefore their assets were her assets. The Ravager, the Sith fleet, the assassins etc. they all belonged to her as the Executor belongs to Sidious. However this does not include things that came into their ownership post-betrayal e.g. the Tomb of Freedon Nadd, war beasts, Vaklu and his forces etc.

This does not apply to G0-T0 in the same way however as he never was the leader of the Exchange as Traya was leader of the Sith Triumvirate, he has no control over the assets of other Exchange bosses. He is the planetary cell leader of Nar Shaddaa, nothing more.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.09.2013 , 07:23 AM | #259
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
A fleet cannot orbit Malachor. It's gravity is too strong, and they would be pulled out of orbit. Or something like that. Maybe it's that the storms would ruin ther engines or something. But as we can see in KotOR2, there is no fleet above Malachor.

Question: does Traya have the powerbases of Sion and Nilius?

Also, all of G0-T0s forces have ships of their own (save HKs). And if you argue that they don't, this is probably where the Zhug Brothers come in. They have plenty of ships, they're duros after all. But also, G0-T0 is centered on Nar Shaddaa. He will easily be able to buy ships. And don't forget that the Exchange is no slouch. They have ships of their own as well. For quality we can look to G0-T0s yacht and the Ebon Hawk.

G0-T0 is no stranger to stealth tech. Equit a few ships with generators that he undoubtably has on hand, and G0-T0 has the means and the ability to get to Malachor and past this fleet, if its there.
The ships available to the Exchange are not warships, and while they could be stealthed, the detection systems on the Sith warships should be more than adequate for picking them up, especially if they're forced to follow certain safe paths through the gravitational storms around Malachor V.

And the reason that you don't see a fleet near Malachor V when you arrive in KotOR II is because it was just destroyed at the Battle of Telos.

The point is, Malachor V is quite the fortress. It's unique nature makes it exceedingly difficult to approach, and the SIth superiority in space heightens that advantage by allowing them to aggressively patrol the few navigable approaches.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.09.2013 , 07:30 AM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well lets first consider what weapon the Sith assassins use, double-bladed force pikes. Not exactly a vibroblade or a blaster, however at maximum power setting it could cut through flesh and bone. Even so it still relies on wacks and thwacks to deal damage. And pressure points aside, a chitinous exoskeleton is going to good protection for those kind of attacks, although by no means immune.

One thing I did not mention, Trandoshans and Gand have very acute eye sight, as do HK-50 droids. Making them more able to detect incoming Sith assassins. Remember that when the Exile was attacked by assassins, she managed to see them at the last moment (game mechanic I know, but based on truth) and these guys would be able to do that to much greater effect. Lose that element of surprise and suddenly it become harder for the assassins to bring their pikes to bear.
Force pikes are vibro-edged weapons. Their combat power settings can cut through flesh, bone, and thin durasteel with ease. I doubt the exoskeletons of the Gand will prove very resilient to these weapons, although the frames of the HK-50 droids might hold up a little better.

Furthermore, the Assassins are hardly the only Sith forces around. There are also the acolytes, apprentices, and Sith Lords at the Trayus Academy who will absolutely devastate any invading forces at close range.

Also, why would the mercenaries be "able to do that to much greater effect"? The Exile was a Jedi, with heightened senses due to the Force. Likely her perceptions were stronger than those of Trandoshans or Gand, or perhaps roughly equivalent. So the stealth skills of the Assassins would still be quite dangerous to G0-T0's forces.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell