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The stupid quirks of players in PvP.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The stupid quirks of players in PvP.

Vember's Avatar


Vember
03.07.2013 , 09:10 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
A LOT of people simply don't get the basic tactics for the warzones:

If you take left and right in Alderaan, you get extra speeders on your dropship going right to those nodes. These speeders are THREE times faster than the 2 "normal" speeders in the middle, and land you perfectly at the nodes. A team using these speeders excessively will *always* win: players get more fight time between dying, they constantly reinforce the sidenodes, even if they then move to another node, and with an optimal team, they even constantly keep eachothers' class buffs up.
Holding mid and grass or snow is easier to defend because of shorter travel times for live defenders. For those relying on speeders to defend snow and grass, all it takes is one well placed push to keep landing defenders off of the node long enough for the enemy team to cap. I have found, with organized teams, holding grass and snow is harder than holding mid and one side.

Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
03.07.2013 , 09:28 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Killtastrophe View Post
I read this as a thread in disguise, albeit not a very good one, about tagging healers with MVP votes more often.
^ This.

0/10.

Hyde_v's Avatar


Hyde_v
03.07.2013 , 09:16 PM | #53
Quote:
Holding mid and grass or snow is easier to defend because of shorter travel times for live defenders. For those relying on speeders to defend snow and grass, all it takes is one well placed push to keep landing defenders off of the node long enough for the enemy team to cap. I have found, with organized teams, holding grass and snow is harder than holding mid and one side.
I hear that a lot. "Mid / south is easier to defend because it has a shorter travel time from the main spawn point."

Ok, yes, they are. But the problem is not the distance. It's the fact that groups do not actually capture mid / south. After several minutes have passed, they still have not captured the node yet they keep going back to it!! Have you ever heard the phrase "repeating the same actions and expecting different results is tatamont to madness?" Or in this case, someone is too stupid to realize that going back to the same location again and again without success accomplishes nothing.

Quote:
I read this as a thread in disguise, albeit not a very good one, about tagging healers with MVP votes more often.
Allow me to quote to you from my original post...

Quote:
Over this game's time, I've noted some very peculiar tendancies. For the life of me, I can neither understand them nor fathom an answer as to why these trends continue when they are clearly bad and very unsuccessful.
Do notice the underlined words are plural, meaning more then one. Discussing how healers were getting the shaft was only one of the rants I had to make. Your assumption that I only wanted to have everyone focus on only one item is incorrect. Nice try though. /pat
"And they probably redesigned the whole sickbay too. I know engineers. They love to change things." -Dr. McCoy, ST:TMP

Kakashioftheye's Avatar


Kakashioftheye
03.07.2013 , 10:14 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Hyde_v View Post
This is a bit of a rant aimed no specific individual.

Over this game's time, I've noted some very peculiar tendancies. For the life of me, I can neither understand them nor fathom an answer as to why these trends continue when they are clearly bad and very unsuccessful.

For example, player's obsession with continually trying to take the southern bunker in the Denova Coast Warzone and the middle turrent in the Civil War Warzone. Especially when it is overwhelmingly clear that said players cannot capture or hold these nodes. Ten minutes in to a warzone and your team has yet to capture a node should be a sign to you to move to another one. Yet again and again and again and again, players run right back to the same untakeable nodes with the mentality of a cow: one cow moves to the right, all cows move to the right. "There's only one defender at this node," someone says. Yet no one goes to that node. They keep trying to take the middle / southern one. And many of those same players do not even once click on the node itself attempting to capture it.

I also cannot comprehend why someone feels that their high DPS score makes them the best when they lose the warzone itself. Oh, sure, there is the individual accomplishment. "I did one million damage," they claim. Yeah, but you did not win and thus gained far less of a reward then you would have had you won. A basketball player who always scores seventy points in every game he plays but who's team never wins a game is still a loser (he'll probably be bought off to play on a new team, basketball being what it is.)

And lastly, I do not quite see the ...shall we say...value in awarding an MVP vote to the top DPSer while the person with over two hundred thousand in total healing gets no MVP votes. Never have I read in team chat that the top DPS on the other team has been marked so he can be killed first. But I've seen games where someone who did the most DPS will get three or even four MVP votes while a dedicated healer gets nothing. You'd think that a healer has a tougher time of things and should be recognized for their ability to keep everyone alive a little longer and avoid being constantly ganked or even healing while being ganked. But, alas, no. No love for who dare to heal. Meanwhile, the other team had three dedicated healers and they captured the Huttball six times in under five minutes. I'll bet those healers got a vote...or perhaps not.

Humans. I cannot figure them out. Filled with such potential but as worthless as a lit match in a can of gasoline.
^This.....THIS!!!!!

Savej's Avatar


Savej
03.07.2013 , 10:31 PM | #55
Nevermind

Vember's Avatar


Vember
03.08.2013 , 09:08 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Hyde_v View Post
I hear that a lot. "Mid / south is easier to defend because it has a shorter travel time from the main spawn point."
It's not the shorter travel time from the main spawn point, its the shorter travel time between the two points themselves. If the majority of your defenders are at snow repelling an attack, the enemy now has a fast run at grass from their spawn while all of your defenders are running across the map to attempt to defend. On the flip side, if you're defenders are moving between grass and mid, for instance, your reaction time is much, much faster.

Hyde_v's Avatar


Hyde_v
03.10.2013 , 04:14 AM | #57
I think I have figured it out. This is just a theory. But it seems plausible and explains why a lot of PvP in the game is horrible even at max level.

The majority of PvPers in this game play badly in Warzones for two reasons. The first is the group of players who are just bad at the game or new. They don't know how to play their class. Or they may believe they do. Others in this first category don't care because watching the flashy graphics on their screen mulls them over like a zambeeni on an ice rink. Players in this first category cannot be helped.

The second reason is one that a larger number of players (almost the majority of players) fall in to. I'd say, about 75% of people who do PvP. After enduring loss after loss, they have given up on their fellow players and guess (often correctly) that they are always going to lose in PvP. They have lost more then they have won and just accept it. Some incorrectly believe that things will change once they reach level fifty. But until then, the wins and losses do not matter since your gear will change faster then a stop light will stay lit on yellow. For these players, they instead focus on individual scores. It fills their inner gamer's heart to see their avatar's name at the top of the score screen. They have have lost the war, but they got incredibly high numbers on their DPS / Healing / medal count / kill count, etc. that the losing is no big deal. "I can just queue up again and get the comms," they say. It will just take a little longer.

Occasionally, both sets of players will be lucky enough to be placed within a group of like-minded players that actually work together. OR, and this is the big clicker, they will see someone else pulling the same impressive DPS / healing, etc numbers that they are and will then friend up with the other one. This is where players get in to the whole "team" aspect. They will protect and help each other. They may find unusual success in this and wonder if larger numbers will help them improve. As time passes, they may gather themselves in to little PvP groups At this point, players usually fall out of the pug genre. I say "usually" because there is a great chance that it will just be another example of "U cuul bro I lik u" and you get two idiots running in circles doing their own lightsaber sound effects.

Of course, saying or typing these insights out publically often gets responses like "You think you're just better then everyone else." Or the gem I read tonight of "I'm reporting you for snobbishness." Hey, I'll admit right now that I'll /sit at a defended node and earn defense medals when it is quite clear that the Warzone cannot be won. After all, if you play as hard as you can and you're still going to lose, you at least want some kind of reward. As you can tell, I fall in to that second reason. You can't win an eight man game by yourself. "Then just quit." Then you get NO reward and are penalized for leaving. Just can't do that.
"And they probably redesigned the whole sickbay too. I know engineers. They love to change things." -Dr. McCoy, ST:TMP

Guamguy's Avatar


Guamguy
03.10.2013 , 04:37 AM | #58
I'm usually the first to call out and grief a team if they're doing something stupid. And most of the time I get the team yelling back at me. But if somebody doesn't get these kids to fall in line and realize what they're doing is wrong how will they ever learn to use their heads in warzones. Stupid things I love to call out are:

1. Players that are nothing but lemmings, they have no concept of not leaving 1 player solo to defend a node/pylon/door. These are the guys who do nothing but follow the crowd trying to get their shots in while they leave 1 person to defend a node and they get burn down by 2 or 3 stealthers

2. Healers are marked for a reason, burn them down instead of the Jugg or Tank that's guarding the healer. I swear nothing bugs me more than seeing 2 or 3 people attacking a tank and right next to said tank is the marked healer just laughing and healing away.

3. Players who decide to play Deathmatch instead of Huttball. Another quirk of mine is players who have no concept of how to play Huttball. In Huttball there's really only 3 things you need to do

1- Stay ahead of the ball carrier so he can pass it to you. Having 4 or 5 players all huddling around the ball carrier will not make him stay alive any longer (unless you're a healer)
2- If the opposite team has the ball you shouldn't be me dueling off to the side while the ball carrier is making his way to score on your team. Always focus on the ball carrier or a person ahead trying to receive a pass
3- And for crying out loud, learn to pass the ball. I don't mind if squishy classes grab the ball and run it towards the goal. But if you are getting burned down by 2 or 3 people don't hold the ball till you die, pass it off to a tank who's actually made for tanking. It's so annoying watching a scoundrel or commando walking to the endzone just to end up dying and thinking he was somehow going to live when 4 or 5 guys are attacking him

AsheraII's Avatar


AsheraII
03.10.2013 , 05:16 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Guamguy View Post
1- Stay ahead of the ball carrier so he can pass it to you. Having 4 or 5 players all huddling around the ball carrier will not make him stay alive any longer (unless you're a healer)
2- If the opposite team has the ball you shouldn't be me dueling off to the side while the ball carrier is making his way to score on your team. Always focus on the ball carrier or a person ahead trying to receive a pass
3- And for crying out loud, learn to pass the ball. I don't mind if squishy classes grab the ball and run it towards the goal. But if you are getting burned down by 2 or 3 people don't hold the ball till you die, pass it off to a tank who's actually made for tanking. It's so annoying watching a scoundrel or commando walking to the endzone just to end up dying and thinking he was somehow going to live when 4 or 5 guys are attacking him
For Huttball, there's also a control part. People often yell "control mid" at the start of the game, but that's only a third of the whole story. There's also "control OUR ramp" and "control THEIR ramp". And for each area, there's one or two classes ideally suited to the task. Some people are so focussed on "controlling mid", that they run right past the enemy player camping the scoreline. I often see entire teams jump into the pit after the ball carrier, completely ignoring the enemy snipers/gunslingers and powertechs/vanguards setting shop on top of the ramp, just waiting for the moment to pull a carrier back on top, and take the ball back, only meters from the scoreline.

Snipers and Gunslingers are the perfect characters to keep your own ramps clear. So why are they all the way there at the enemy ramp? Because their team controls your ramp as well, and your team doesn't threaten their ramp at all. There should be stealthers on their own ramp, constantly kicking them off to make a path for ball carriers, but nobody is. For some reason, the stealthers are hunting ballcarriers. All the other classes are great for carrying the ball and supporting the ballcarrier, but leave the "control" part to stealthers for the enemy ramp and snipers/gunslingers for your own ramp. If there's a lack of either, then it's great if a BH or Trooper fills the blank, or maybe a sorc, but ideally, those would handle the ball-play or keep the carrier alive. Loose your ramp, and you loose the game.
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Pingonaut's Avatar


Pingonaut
03.10.2013 , 07:27 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
I'm pretty sure the tanks and dps only believe in tough love for healers.
I always vote MVP for a good healer. No one ever notices the tank keeping you from getting hurt, though. Not really. I understand the frustrations for healers. DPS don't realize that the people allowing him to get such high DPS are the healers and tanks (except for the good DPS people who know what they're doing).