The Future of Competitive Raiding in SW:TOR

I spilled coffee at the "competitive raiding" and stopped reading right then and there. Even the Norwegian Blue parrot makes more sense than that.

As far as that goes I can agree, announcers really do make things better to watch (husky is just fun to listen to). My guild was really into making video guides for a while but stopped because of computer constraints. The video makers will be starting back up again. Here's an old video we made that got about 4k views (highest video view count is 8k on a D7 guide) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a97BRrTyTXA

There are people here that are competitive when it comes to raiding. We also have a nice system to determine kill legitimacy. This is the old progression thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=world+ranking

And this is what we will be using for S&V: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=world+ranking


I agree that there should be a lower barrier to entry. The point of difficulty in these raids is not to have the best gear, but the best stat allocations, and even this is not what the difficulty SHOULD be coming from. Mastering your class, your rotations, knowing what to use at certain times, and how to move/position is where the difficulty comes from.

What do you guys think we could do to 1) help raiding be more enjoyable and interesting to watch, and 2) bring in large amounts of revenue for BioWare? Let's work together to think up solutions

Less competitive raiding and more 4th pillar please. If you do not want me to complaing about raiding in your thread, you can always try the flashpoints, heroics and operations page. I never go into there. Otherwise, there should be no future for raiding in a game where that is not the main focus.

Ehh, theorycrafting can go a long way. I know that I can do more damage than a lot of people in the game not because I'm a better player or because I'm more intelligent than they are but because I've done the work to figure out what the peak stat optimizations are.

Without raiding there really is no need for extreme stat optimization. I know that you want the highest numbers in PvP, but your ability to do damage in a warzone is much less dependent on your stat optimizations. Would be nice to see people actually think about what gear they use.

I want opinions, not backing. The purpose of this thread is to see what people think, so you are very welcome here.

The future of competitive raiding is entirely upto Bioware and how fast the turn out endgame content. Atm hardcore guilds are just waiting for content.

I hate to say it this way but it's the only way I can think of it at the moment. Sure, you may enjoy it, but that's just you, and personal anecdotes are largely irrelevant.

Even with Company of Heroes, you need to know how the game is played rather well to take the most from it. Conversely with other "spectator sports", a man could have never touched a baseball bat or a hockey stick and still understand the game.

I would argue against both points greatly. 8 completely different character story arcs, each of which can take several days to get through if you're trying to speed through it. Take your time and enjoy the view there's easily hundreds of hours to much rather play than watch.
I would also say that just because you're interested in an MMO does not mean that you're at all interested in raiding, or even the competitive end of raiding. While it may more true of themepark games than that of a sandbox variety, there is always enough else to do that a person can enjoy themselves without that facet, and thusly do not spectate raids. I'd personally argue (though I have no evidence to back it) that even most raiders probably do not watch other raid footage.
I would suggest an alternative theory. The Old Republic isn't interesting to watch because it's not a game that was meant to be watched as its played. Even with it being as story-based as any other Bioware game is known for being (which is huge), it's not the kind of game that one person can play and the rest of your buds can sit back and enjoy watching.

I would also point out an interesting observation about what you said. From the sound of it, the majority of the reason you watch players compete in these video games (and also from the sound it, most other spectators) is so that you can get better at the game. Well if someone doesn't play the game at all, or is comfortable enough with where they are, there's no point.

If you can't explain the game to a granny and have a strong chance of them understanding, you're not looking at a real spectator event.

the number of fans something has is irrelevant to the nature of whether it's a sport or not. Archery and swimming are more of a sport than bowling or poker is, but the former two get less attention outside of the Olympics every four years.
Video games may one day become a real entertainment opportunity for spectators, but until technology and the way we play games dramatically changes it cannot be a sport.

The massive hurdle I think is that the only people who have any interest in competitive gaming are other gamers. While at first that may sound obvious, I have throw something out as a contrast. There's guys who have been lifelong baseball fans that hadn't picked up a ball since primary school, or dudes in Los Angeles who have never even seen snow but are huge about hockey.

Can you get someone with no knowledge, experience, or interest in video games to sit down and watch someone play? It's hard. Could you get that person to watch an MMO Raid? I'd say that's close to impossible.

It's not hard to understand: It's 8-40+ people all chipping at a huge block of hitpoints for an hour or more, so they can argue after who gets the magic shoes. Only now it's a timed race to do it faster, so you can use those magic shoes on a BIGGER block of hitpoints that also gives you a magic belt before some other guild does that first!

It's more exciting than a monster truck rally! It will thrill all ages!

Drop self-styled elite hardcore raiders into a pit with a lion. I would pay to watch that.

I think there still is a place for raiding and even hardcore raiding in this or any other game (note: I have not even seen an operation myself yet.). The continued slow death of social skills, patience, and just general willingness to attempt to cooperate are killing raiding. I admit to being bad about this myself in FPs I've seen eleventybillion times but there was a time when I helped lead a WOW guild through 3 raid team reboots.

Ultimately though, it has to matter in some way. Traditionally that was the gear grind. The ability to show that you either got X thing first or that you and your team were good enough to get X eventually. Nothing in this game seems to hit that threshold. Be it either because the stats aren't all that much different or be it the fact that the next tier just generally looks terrible. I think the whole Hey! I look like a Power Ranger Bad guy! contributes a LOT to the lack of raiding (Yes, I know that this stuff is in comics. Doesn't make it any less Power Ranger material). I remember busting my rear end for Gronnstalker armor in WOW. I have yet to see ANYTHING in this game that gives me that desire.

Bottom line, until there is a real reason to go through the hassle that raiding can be, folks just won't want to open up and do it outside of their clique.