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30-54 bracket

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RobHinkle's Avatar


RobHinkle
02.26.2013 , 10:38 AM | #101 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Here you go Rob.
Im in legacy gear with lvl 33 purples or less.
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18b09e65.png


When I enter PVP, I get a 273EXP boost and AIM boost to 1289(+177) and END boost to 1210(+225)
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5a9479eb.png


While this might be recruit level, the issue with 30-54 and 55 brackets is that the EXP boost on gear in the current system will severely outpace this bolster as the removal of the DR and the lack of gear upgrades until 55 will produce a large gear gap in the 30-54. The 55 bracket will suffer as well since the Partisan gear has more EXP and other stats than even elite WH does, let alone the Conqueror gear. I know eventually EWH will get to 55, but the initial shock might be too much for lower level or new entries to PVP to bare.

I am not sure how you solve this besides increasing the EXP boost. I understand you don't want to trivialize PVP gear, but if you are not geared in the current system, 2.0 could reintroduce some of the same gear issues we have now, where a fresh 50, without decent PVE gear, feels like a punching bag.
That doesn't look at all like the values I would expect, I would expect to see your Aim and End much closer to the 1900ish mark, and ~2k Expertise. Investigating what is going on, this *may* be a different symptom of our well known bolster bug, or it might be something else entirely.
Rob Hinkle | Senior Designer
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Rezec's Avatar


Rezec
02.26.2013 , 01:04 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
That doesn't look at all like the values I would expect, I would expect to see your Aim and End much closer to the 1900ish mark, and ~2k Expertise. Investigating what is going on, this *may* be a different symptom of our well known bolster bug, or it might be something else entirely.
He would see around 2k expertise from level 33 gear with no expertise on it? Surely at 55 this bolster would not be like this or else PvE Raid gear as it is in 2.0 with its significantly higher stats will out due PvP gear since it will be bolstered to almost the same amount of expertise.

If that's the case prepare to lose a lot of PvPers, Endgame PvE gear should not be on par with PvP gear in "PvP" especially now that stat wise our PvP gear is useless in endgame PVE or close to useless.
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DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
02.26.2013 , 01:07 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
That doesn't look at all like the values I would expect, I would expect to see your Aim and End much closer to the 1900ish mark, and ~2k Expertise. Investigating what is going on, this *may* be a different symptom of our well known bolster bug, or it might be something else entirely.
I understand that the new Bolster is in its nascent stages and still PTS, but it sure seems like you guys are expecting it to do a lot...maybe leaning on it too much.
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Antiskeptic's Avatar


Antiskeptic
02.26.2013 , 02:09 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Rezec View Post
He would see around 2k expertise from level 33 gear with no expertise on it? Surely at 55 this bolster would not be like this or else PvE Raid gear as it is in 2.0 with its significantly higher stats will out due PvP gear since it will be bolstered to almost the same amount of expertise.

If that's the case prepare to lose a lot of PvPers, Endgame PvE gear should not be on par with PvP gear in "PvP" especially now that stat wise our PvP gear is useless in endgame PVE or close to useless.
I agree, I'm confused, why would lvl 33 purples boost to better than war hero in endgame (lvl 55) PvP? If you're playing in that bracket you should be working for that gear unless my lvl 55 PVP gear will also be bolstered in operations and flashpoints? But then why should I bother trying to get both sets as someone who enjoys pvp and pve?
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L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
02.26.2013 , 02:46 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Rezec View Post
He would see around 2k expertise from level 33 gear with no expertise on it? Surely at 55 this bolster would not be like this or else PvE Raid gear as it is in 2.0 with its significantly higher stats will out due PvP gear since it will be bolstered to almost the same amount of expertise.

If that's the case prepare to lose a lot of PvPers, Endgame PvE gear should not be on par with PvP gear in "PvP" especially now that stat wise our PvP gear is useless in endgame PVE or close to useless.
I am assuming the MAIN/END is checked prior to an EXP boost. If they meet a certain threshold, little or no boost is given. So what would happen is top end PVE gear would get no MAIN/END bolster, and an EXP bolster only. The EXP bolster would still be lower than what would be possible in PvP gear. Even the top notch PvE gear will probably only net a 300-400MAIN delta, so with a lower EXP bolster say 1800(around 2000 in my book), an UW geared player would still be at a disadvantage versus a PVP geared player, but above a undergeared because of stronger secondary stats.

Armor rating must come into play as well. I see stats being bolstered, not armor rating, so my legacy armor reduction is significantly lower than a top geared (PVE) LvL55. That is why I suggested that armor rating on PVP gear is increased to match PVE.

Overall we need to keep in mind that in the new system even a 100EXP difference gives a considerable amount of advantage, so "around 2k" is most likely a number below the max possible, which means PVP gear would still hold the edge. My aim would be the get the delta between bolstered EXP to max EXP(via gear) around 5%. That is putting you in the 1900EXP range (which is what I think is the Devs goal) if you have 0EXP and decrease that number as you gain more EXP from your gear.

I think everyone could live with that, we just need to tweak the cutoff points.
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
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Namelezone's Avatar


Namelezone
02.26.2013 , 03:23 PM | #106
I am not a fan of the bracket system... it is already hard enough for people to get into a warzone as it is. but With the current bracket i get killed by low levels all the time so i dont have a problem with the current one. now what i think it should be is that the current system and then the 50-55 would be better, since it would pull more into the top level of the warzones and give it the same feel and then later down the line just give it more room. thats less work. and good competition.

RobHinkle's Avatar


RobHinkle
02.26.2013 , 04:08 PM | #107 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by Rezec View Post
He would see around 2k expertise from level 33 gear with no expertise on it? Surely at 55 this bolster would not be like this or else PvE Raid gear as it is in 2.0 with its significantly higher stats will out due PvP gear since it will be bolstered to almost the same amount of expertise.

If that's the case prepare to lose a lot of PvPers, Endgame PvE gear should not be on par with PvP gear in "PvP" especially now that stat wise our PvP gear is useless in endgame PVE or close to useless.
The amount of expertise and stat you gain is based on the rating of the items you currently have versus the rating that we are bolstering a player towards. If you have items above that target (for example, from high end raid gear), you get much less (or in some cases no) benefit from the bolster.

Consider it this way (and it isn't quite this simple of a , but it should help illustrate our goal): Bolster defines the floor of power we want players to be in PvP and if you are below that floor, we lift you up. We have the floor currently set right around non-augmented Elite War Hero level of power.
Rob Hinkle | Senior Designer
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xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
02.26.2013 , 04:39 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
That doesn't look at all like the values I would expect, I would expect to see your Aim and End much closer to the 1900ish mark, and ~2k Expertise. Investigating what is going on, this *may* be a different symptom of our well known bolster bug, or it might be something else entirely.
lol so whats the point of having pvp gear on level 55? if you get bolstered to pretty much the same stats with pve gear...

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
02.26.2013 , 05:20 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
lol so whats the point of having pvp gear on level 55? if you get bolstered to pretty much the same stats with pve gear...
"pretty much" /= "exactly the same"

Even a 5% advantage is worth getting. Some incentive, but no derpzones. Plus you can acquire PvP gear faster than top tier PvE gear, especially with the comm cap and lockouts (assuming you don't buy any crafted items).
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
02.26.2013 , 05:33 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
I understand that the new Bolster is in its nascent stages and still PTS, but it sure seems like you guys are expecting it to do a lot...maybe leaning on it too much.
It's a great thing to lean on, if it's done right. Think about it. Instead of starting at recruit-level when you hit 55 and getting slaughtered by every pro and noob you fight, you still have decent stats. Your stats don't start increasing until you've bought the first tier though. This is actually a very well-designed response to the rock-hard entrance into level 50 PvP in the current live game.
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL 55s: 15 10/10 HM DREAD OPS
ETERNAL WARRIOR CONQUEROR OF THE DREAD FORTRESS
30/30 Dread Fortress PVP BEST IN SLOT 4/5 NiM DP