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Stop forcing PVP on PVE servers


LanceCorporalDan's Avatar


LanceCorporalDan
02.25.2013 , 04:23 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by anonnn View Post
You might want to add actual information to your posts, rather than spitting unbacked disagreement on the forums. It's a fact, that there are 2 extra missions on the Event mission terminal, that if a PvE player doesn't want to go ahead and engage in PvP, there aren't 2 missions to replace those missions and the rewards that they grant. All a PvE player can do is look at the 2 missions leftover on the terminal and realize they're being left out of some of the Event. Unless there's some hidden thing to those quests that everyone's neglected to mention... it's exactly how I've said it is, and your disagreement is nothing more than predictable provocation of an argument where none exists.

That is their choice the event is meant to incorporate all styles of gameplay, it offers players the chance to pvp and get something out of it while having the majority of players still be able to do pve missions. My disagreement is that they are choosing to miss out on only two missions which they can do without. I doubt PvP players are complaining nearly as much that all of the missions are PvE oriented. They choose to miss out on content by not doing the missions which can be done without PvP'ing. It applies the same to PvP'ers missing out on content if they wish to not PvE.

The same argument is applied to both sides. It's a player choice to miss out on content.
/Pineapples
Neves - 55 Vanguard
Dahkaras - 55 AssassinKeelaran - 55Juggernaut
Kalkaran - 55 MercenaryKallim - 55 Operative

MrSchmo's Avatar


MrSchmo
02.25.2013 , 04:42 PM | #52
There is so much dumb in this thread I can't wrap my head around it.
That's why they call it space, cause there is so much of it.

MrRuck's Avatar


MrRuck
02.25.2013 , 05:26 PM | #53
So PvPers wait a year to get one thing to do outside of Warzones for a limited time, with a tiny reward, and that's too much? Wow.

Not only does PvE have the sole means of earning Legacy Weapons, reputation can be earned far more effectively through World Bosses than PvP quests. You can hit the Legend cap without ever being flagged for PvP; I did it without farming bosses or doing dailies for half the event.

It's very easy to flip your argument around & ask why I can't PvP to earn the vast majority of unique rewards in this game. Personally I just make the choice to either do the content or not, instead of demanding it shouldn't exist for others simply because I don't want to do it.

And to clarify, it's no more griefing than being killed in a Warzone.
> PvP quest brackets
> Multiple PvP flag warnings
> PvP reward (could be better; the fact people PvP regardless only shows how badly this content is needed)
> PvP objective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Hill_(game)).

SWGEvictee's Avatar


SWGEvictee
02.25.2013 , 05:33 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by anonnn View Post
You might want to add actual information to your posts, rather than spitting unbacked disagreement on the forums. It's a fact, that there are 2 extra missions on the Event mission terminal, that if a PvE player doesn't want to go ahead and engage in PvP, there aren't 2 missions to replace those missions and the rewards that they grant. All a PvE player can do is look at the 2 missions leftover on the terminal and realize they're being left out of some of the Event. Unless there's some hidden thing to those quests that everyone's neglected to mention... it's exactly how I've said it is, and your disagreement is nothing more than predictable provocation of an argument where none exists.
They are not being left out. They are fully able to do the missions if they choose to. If they choose not to the do not have too and it will not stop them from advancing thru the Gree reputation ranks.

anonnn's Avatar


anonnn
02.25.2013 , 05:38 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by LanceCorporalDan View Post
That is their choice the event is meant to incorporate all styles of gameplay, it offers players the chance to pvp and get something out of it while having the majority of players still be able to do pve missions. My disagreement is that they are choosing to miss out on only two missions which they can do without. I doubt PvP players are complaining nearly as much that all of the missions are PvE oriented. They choose to miss out on content by not doing the missions which can be done without PvP'ing. It applies the same to PvP'ers missing out on content if they wish to not PvE.

The same argument is applied to both sides. It's a player choice to miss out on content.
/Pineapples
Sorry, that argument will not do, it is a fallacy. People have repeatedly tried to use the argument that PvE additionals is the same as PvP additionals, and it's ludicrous that anyone has bought into an argument such as that. The game is, at its core, a PvE teamplay game, which is where the majority of development effort has gone, into storylines and class/planetary missions and cinematic sequences. If BioWare adds extra Operations to the game or adds an extra Event mission against some NPCs, they in no way become obligated to add a corresponding PvP feature.

Strict PvE-only players avoid PvP missions because they don't like it, they find it either stressful, lacking in fun-factor, or objectionable for obvious reasons. The same cannot be said of PvP players looking at PvE missions; if they don't want to go on the PvE missions, it's not because the PvE missions inherently bother them in some way, it's because they think the PvP missions are just more fun. Dedicated PvE players would ask for more guaranteed exclusion from being drawn into PvP, while the dedicated PvP players would ask for all PvE missions to be changed into PvP missions.

PvP is the "extra" feature; it requires a person to flag and make themselves vulnerable to human players attacking them at will, and BioWare wisely added the flagging system for PvE servers so that people can opt out of the mechanism of that and not walk around vulnerable to PvP gameplay. Given that there is already the flagging system just so that people can avoid vulnerability to being attacked, it should be understood that there should be even more guarantee of ability to avoid this scenario, by adding a more permanent and non-circumventable flagging-protection to the game. I think everyone understands that if there weren't the flagging system and thus all servers were PvP servers, that a very large portion of players would not play the game at all. Keep in mind that if PvP were removed from the game entirely, BioWare would still have a very large player base, and many of those players (and their parents) would in fact be happier with the game environment.

The point I've made is that for something as special and uniquely rewarding as a 2-week Event, corresponding PvE missions should be offered in place of the PvP missions, so that players who do not PvP as a rule are not left out of a portion of the Event. If a PvP player boldly stated that they steer very clear of all PvE missions, they would be laughed at since there's no inherent reason or particularly convincing motivation to do so. Since the Event mission rewards are special rewards, and not simply credits and +Exp, there should be a required balance of potential reward for PvE players since they have a right to expect to not be forced to go on PvP missions just to get the Event rewards. Briefly stated, if a person were to claim to object to PvE gameplay based on moral/ethical considerations, even though some people would become curious the reasons why, the person would lose credibility amongst a very large percentage of readers.

Consider PvE missions analogous to the Olympic sport of the discus throw, and PvP like the professional sport of boxing... and maybe it will help you understand better than to claim that PvE and PvP are mirror activities that have identical considerations from each side. Consider for a moment whether the sport of Boxing will ever be outlawed.
Boring conversation anyway.
Think twice. . . Think again.
Nullius in verba. . .

LanceCorporalDan's Avatar


LanceCorporalDan
02.25.2013 , 05:52 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by anonnn View Post
Sorry, that argument will not do, it is a fallacy. People have repeatedly tried to use the argument that PvE additionals is the same as PvP additionals, and it's ludicrous that anyone has bought into an argument such as that. The game is, at its core, a PvE teamplay game, which is where the majority of development effort has gone, into storylines and class/planetary missions and cinematic sequences. If BioWare adds extra Operations to the game or adds an extra Event mission against some NPCs, they in no way become obligated to add a corresponding PvP feature.

Strict PvE-only players avoid PvP missions because they don't like it, they find it either stressful, lacking in fun-factor, or objectionable for obvious reasons. The same cannot be said of PvP players looking at PvE missions; if they don't want to go on the PvE missions, it's not because the PvE missions inherently bother them in some way, it's because they think the PvP missions are just more fun. Dedicated PvE players would ask for more guaranteed exclusion from being drawn into PvP, while the dedicated PvP players would ask for all PvE missions to be changed into PvP missions.

PvP is the "extra" feature; it requires a person to flag and make themselves vulnerable to human players attacking them at will, and BioWare wisely added the flagging system for PvE servers so that people can opt out of the mechanism of that and not walk around vulnerable to PvP gameplay. Given that there is already the flagging system just so that people can avoid vulnerability to being attacked, it should be understood that there should be even more guarantee of ability to avoid this scenario, by adding a more permanent and non-circumventable flagging-protection to the game. I think everyone understands that if there weren't the flagging system and thus all servers were PvP servers, that a very large portion of players would not play the game at all. Keep in mind that if PvP were removed from the game entirely, BioWare would still have a very large player base, and many of those players (and their parents) would in fact be happier with the game environment.

The point I've made is that for something as special and uniquely rewarding as a 2-week Event, corresponding PvE missions should be offered in place of the PvP missions, so that players who do not PvP as a rule are not left out of a portion of the Event. If a PvP player boldly stated that they steer very clear of all PvE missions, they would be laughed at since there's no inherent reason or particularly convincing motivation to do so. Since the Event mission rewards are special rewards, and not simply credits and +Exp, there should be a required balance of potential reward for PvE players since they have a right to expect to not be forced to go on PvP missions just to get the Event rewards. Briefly stated, if a person were to claim to object to PvE gameplay based on moral/ethical considerations, even though some people would become curious the reasons why, the person would lose credibility amongst a very large percentage of readers.

Consider PvE missions analogous to the Olympic sport of the discus throw, and PvP like the professional sport of boxing... and maybe it will help you understand better than to claim that PvE and PvP are mirror activities that have identical considerations from each side. Consider for a moment whether the sport of Boxing will ever be outlawed.
One thing should be made clear, I entirely agree the autoflag from aoe's should be removed from PvE servers as this does force PvP onto those that do not wish it.

With that said, I take a risk in summarizing that you're overall argument is that this is a PvE oriented game with a PvE oriented staff. And that in place of PvP missions, on PvE servers there should be PvE missions implemented in substitute for them during this event?

I would like to confirm this before going on to making my counterpoints.
Neves - 55 Vanguard
Dahkaras - 55 AssassinKeelaran - 55Juggernaut
Kalkaran - 55 MercenaryKallim - 55 Operative

SWGEvictee's Avatar


SWGEvictee
02.25.2013 , 05:53 PM | #57
No one is being left out of anything. The event was put down with play style options for all. All players may chose which missions they do or do not partake in. Anytime they have the choice in their hands they have not been left out of anything.

Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.25.2013 , 06:30 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by PetFish View Post
It seems many words have had their official meanings changed lately:

The new definition for "quitting" should be officially changed to "I'm not going to quit but instead I'll just *tell* people I'm going to quit and just keep posting anything I feel I want to whine about".

Another definition that needs changing is "misery", and how we somehow enjoy other peoples' misery. A homeless person or a drug addict, that's misery, and I doubt anyone enjoys it. Getting killed while in an open world FFA area is not misery at all, it's good times.

The last one has to be 'griefing'. Now, no matter what anyone does, if some person doesn't like it it's somehow 'griefing'. All I have to do is win a speeder race to a mineral node in front of someone and it's automatically griefing. Win a roll for the rare pet drop: grieifing. Scavenging materials from all the dead robots laying around: grieifing. I bought that item off the GTN when you wanted it: grieifing.

If you're gonna quit, then quit, nobody cares but you or what you have to say but yourself. So buh-bye and just don't post here again. Do what you say you're gonna do and just quit already.
You have an interesting perspective. However, I never said anything about quitting. I only stated that I canceled my subscription and didn't plan to renew it. I did what I said I would do.

As for "misery" it is defined as "A cause or source of great distress." It has nothing to do with being homeless or addiction, though it can be caused by either, and many more things.

I looked up the word "griefing" through Google. It was defined as "A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game that purposely irritates and harasses other players" If you attack a player, when you have no reason to believe they are interested in being attack, that is purposely irritating. If you follow that player as they run away, telling you to stop, because they want to avoid a pointless fight, that is harassment.

Apparently you cared enough to post something that you, presumably, thought was clever; you failed. Congratulations.
P.S. You can call my original post "whining," but it is no more whining than yours. At least mine was meant to improve the game, not just trying to put someone down. It was meant for the developers, as I was directed to post in there by customer service reps. It wasn't meant for the ignorant whining griefers.
Star Cruiser Crash Crash

Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.25.2013 , 06:37 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Stoofa View Post
Then why are you spending "The time that is your time" participating in a PvP zone when you have no interest in actually doing PvP?
Just seems mad that you'd spend your time doing something you don't enjoy - but then have a go at somebody in the same zone as you doing something they do enjoy - PvP.
That is a good point. However, I enjoy the rewards of completing the missions. I would like to max my reputation, because I am another Lemming that falls victim to the mentality of grinding to the top, just to be there. What I don't enjoy is having to speeder back to the area, taking several minutes, because someone thought "hey, it might be fun to kill this person." It is especially true, when they attack me while I'm at half health, and attacking multiple NPCs. There is no challenge to that, just opportunistic... I don't even know what to call it. If they got rewards, like pvp commendations, I would understand why they are attacking me. I might even engage in it myself. Further, i play for my enjoyment, not to be the object of someone else's enjoyment. I have been known to go out of my way to help others, but I do so voluntarily.
Star Cruiser Crash Crash

Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.25.2013 , 06:46 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by -DarK-HorsE- View Post
Just wanted to throw in here...

So if a PvE server is strictly non PvP then why are there WZ's? Rated at that, which are usually for the extremely dedicated PvPers.

Someone stated that people are killing others for no reason... Here is my reason for wiping a line: I have better **** to do than stand in a line. Some of the lines I have seen the people will blow up before they even make it up to turn in. Everyone is flagged in this area and that means survival of the fittest. The Ancient Gree droid has a long respawn timer why wait and take your chances that someone else downs him and you have to wait even longer? If I have room in my party I will invite if it looks like someone is waiting for it. I play a game to have fun and actually play not stand there and stare at the back of someone's head for the duration of my gametime. I don't go around smoking everything that moves but I will remove a line or take on another guild for the FUN of it.

You only gain a little Rep from the PvP area, if the thought of having to do a little PvP turns you off enough you won't go in. Just like for the PvPers if they don't want to run around and grind the dailies nobody is forcing them to.... But then again they kinda are forced to arent they if they want the Grey Tokens for the Legacy weapons... So who should be complaining?
You make some interesting points. I can certainly understand not wanting to wait in line. I would also say that part of the mechanic of that competition is to promote PvP. I wouldn't complain in that instance, if they were competing for resources. My complaint is when people just stand around there, knowing that people will show up and they can attack them. (hint, I'm the only one with an orb nearby)

It seems to me, that on PvP servers, they would include PvP in the main part of the quests. I would also think that they would offer benefits for engaging in PvP during those missions.

Also, I have been flagged involuntarily on many occasions. I can only guess that my companion dropped an AOE in the wrong spot, and I get flagged for it. Also, Sage healers get an AOE heal. It is one of their benefits, but it also leaves them open to involuntary flagging.
Star Cruiser Crash Crash