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Re-visiting the Battle of Hoth: General Rieekan vs General Veers!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Re-visiting the Battle of Hoth: General Rieekan vs General Veers!

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.21.2013 , 12:14 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by jasonthelamb View Post
Maybe I'm confused, but is this a "give the Rebels more troops to make harder on the imps" type of scenario?


I think that at the end of the day, Empire wins; because if they can take down the shield generator and have guns pointed at the hangars, they'll just have too much firepower (hello orbital bombardments) against the Rebels. Everyone knew that the Rebels weren't making a stand at Hoth, they were simply giving officers and high-priority people time to escape.

End of the day, Empire wins this 10 out of 10.
Veers just has Blizzard Force, so no orbital bombardments for him and they only retreated due to not being able to put up a front against the Imp forces while here they have a chance, the biggest threat here for the Rebels are the AT-ATs so they just need to take those down fast.

Also the neck is part of an AT-ATs weakspot Command, so the Specforce can take down an AT-AT ground wise too. The MPTLs can also do damage, aswell as the T4-B tanks.

Edit: Also gave Echo Base(for the inside only) 600 Rebel Troops, at its height it had 7,500 combat and command personal but that would be unfair for the Snowtroopers, plus the remaining Wilderness Fighters could fall back and strengthen the base defense.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.24.2013 , 09:58 AM | #12
Bump! Don't want this thread to go yet, worked on it so wanna see if anyone else has thoughts.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.24.2013 , 03:06 PM | #13
I don't know much about this but I'll use my experience playing Empire at War to judge the outcome.

Firstly, does Rieekan have Snowspeeders? Because if he doesn't then he's at a severe disadvantage. Rieekan has MPTLs, which in any other confrontation would tear through Blizzard Force with ease. However Veers has 9 AT-ATs with powerful, long range fire capablities, and extremely effective against MPTLs - as soon as the proton torperdo launchers enter the battlefield, the AT-ATs will quickly target them and rip them to pieces. We also have to consider the fact that Blizzard Force can take over enemy trenches as so protect themselves against attack, however they'll be pretty defenceless out in the open.

Nonetheless those AT-ATs are going to do some heavy damage, if I were in Veers position I'd take out the MPTLs first then move on to the other tank units, and have my walkers and the like engage the enemies walkers. With the tanks eliminated, Rieekan would be at a major disadvantage and his walkers would be severly outnumbered and be quickly destroyed. Then its just a case of taking out his ground forces, laying waste to his shield generator and razing his base.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.24.2013 , 03:22 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I don't know much about this but I'll use my experience playing Empire at War to judge the outcome.

Firstly, does Rieekan have Snowspeeders? Because if he doesn't then he's at a severe disadvantage. Rieekan has MPTLs, which in any other confrontation would tear through Blizzard Force with ease. However Veers has 9 AT-ATs with powerful, long range fire capablities, and extremely effective against MPTLs - as soon as the proton torperdo launchers enter the battlefield, the AT-ATs will quickly target them and rip them to pieces. We also have to consider the fact that Blizzard Force can take over enemy trenches as so protect themselves against attack, however they'll be pretty defenceless out in the open.

Nonetheless those AT-ATs are going to do some heavy damage, if I were in Veers position I'd take out the MPTLs first then move on to the other tank units, and have my walkers and the like engage the enemies walkers. With the tanks eliminated, Rieekan would be at a major disadvantage and his walkers would be severly outnumbered and be quickly destroyed. Then its just a case of taking out his ground forces, laying waste to his shield generator and razing his base.
Yes he does, Rieekan has Echo Base entirely and all its resources, and again...Veers just has Blizzard Force, so no orbital bombardments or TIEs or anything of that nature.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.24.2013 , 03:43 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I have thought about this particular scenario a few times.

I think, in an all out battle, General Rieekan would eventually win. It depends on how he positions his forces. The MPTLs and AT-TEs will be useful in taking out some of the heavy walkers, and the specforce troops will be able to take on the Snowtroopers for a time, but I feel that Rieekan will be pushed back into Echo Base eventually.

But this is actually a good thing since there will be no retreat (if there is no option). General Rieekan can position his troops and set up traps for the Snowtroopers (who will be cut off from the AT-ATs). So once the supporting Snowtroopers are down, the SpecForce soldiers and whatever reserve armor Rieekan has can be moved (from what was the shuttle landing zone of Echo Base) to flank the remaining forces in Blizzard Force.

All in all, I think that Rieekan's position in Echo Base (and the fact that he doesn't have to worry about retreating to save the Rebellion) will win him the battle. The Heavy Armor helps too.
You seem to be forgetting the existence of Veers' 9 AT-ATs - the most formidable assault unit that the Empire possessed - these guys are going to cut through Rieekan's forces pretty quickly - especially given their long range capabilities, meaning they can attack before Vieekan fires a shot. I mean, what assault units does Vieekan have to oppose him?

AT-APs - practical bantha fodder, they may have powerful firing capabilities but nothing strong enough to do any real damage on the walkers before the AT-ATs blow them to pieces in a couple of shots.

HAVws - these actually might be a threat, but the AT-ATs have the advantage of height and can deal out damage from above, taking out the turret emplacements on the top which height would have previously protected them from. And Veers has some of his own.

T4-B Heavy Tanks - these things have powerful shields, but could not withstand sustained laser fire from an AT-AT for more than 15 seconds. Their missile launchers might do some damage but they'll be getting blown up left, right and center.

AT-TE - those mass driver cannons will definitely do some serious damage to the AT-ATs but then again, how high could those cannons reach? I also don't believe these things were shielded so a few well aimed, aerial strikes at the cockpit and gunners would quickly decommission this tanks.

AT-XTs - ha! I laughed when I saw these guys. I thought for a moment they might have the advantage of speed but they only move 15 km faster than a AT-TE, not fast enough.

Really the major threat is the snowspeeders. But how many did they manage to take down in the Battle of Hoth, 5? And I believe Rogue Squadron took down three of those and they are absent from this battle. What's more the AT-ATs downed many snowspeeders themselves. I reckon Veers could take out five in this battle, perhaps one or two more - but not before Veers has torn through his tanks and lain waste to his walkers. And in only takes 1 AT-AT to destroy a shield generator.

And concerning Rieekan hunkering down in his base, that won't be so effective when the shield generators are down and the remaining AT-ATs are blowing it sky high.

Its fun being able to do some proper debating. Come on! Fight me!

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.24.2013 , 03:56 PM | #16
Alright am limiting Veers' AT-ATs to just 3, in hindsight I probably should have realized just how powerful they really are so ya there are only 3 now. Though Beni don't forget, the Wilderness Fighters do have heavy weapons for this scenario and just because Rogue Squadron isn't here doesn't mean the pilots can't take out the AT-ATs.

Along with the Wilderness Fighters and their heavy weapons, neck shots are also a weak point in an AT-AT as is the underbelly. Also don't forget that the AT-XTs have a plasma deflector shield, they may not be able to move much faster then the AT-TE but they make up for it with a defense capability something which the AT-STs lack.

Also again, no aerial strikes...Veers just has his ground forces here.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.24.2013 , 04:17 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
You seem to be forgetting the existence of Veers' 9 AT-ATs - the most formidable assault unit that the Empire possessed - these guys are going to cut through Rieekan's forces pretty quickly - especially given their long range capabilities, meaning they can attack before Vieekan fires a shot. I mean, what assault units does Vieekan have to oppose him?

AT-APs - practical bantha fodder, they may have powerful firing capabilities but nothing strong enough to do any real damage on the walkers before the AT-ATs blow them to pieces in a couple of shots.

HAVws - these actually might be a threat, but the AT-ATs have the advantage of height and can deal out damage from above, taking out the turret emplacements on the top which height would have previously protected them from. And Veers has some of his own.

T4-B Heavy Tanks - these things have powerful shields, but could not withstand sustained laser fire from an AT-AT for more than 15 seconds. Their missile launchers might do some damage but they'll be getting blown up left, right and center.

AT-TE - those mass driver cannons will definitely do some serious damage to the AT-ATs but then again, how high could those cannons reach? I also don't believe these things were shielded so a few well aimed, aerial strikes at the cockpit and gunners would quickly decommission this tanks.

AT-XTs - ha! I laughed when I saw these guys. I thought for a moment they might have the advantage of speed but they only move 15 km faster than a AT-TE, not fast enough.

Really the major threat is the snowspeeders. But how many did they manage to take down in the Battle of Hoth, 5? And I believe Rogue Squadron took down three of those and they are absent from this battle. What's more the AT-ATs downed many snowspeeders themselves. I reckon Veers could take out five in this battle, perhaps one or two more - but not before Veers has torn through his tanks and lain waste to his walkers. And in only takes 1 AT-AT to destroy a shield generator.

And concerning Rieekan hunkering down in his base, that won't be so effective when the shield generators are down and the remaining AT-ATs are blowing it sky high.

Its fun being able to do some proper debating. Come on! Fight me!
Alrighty. I'm going off of the Battlefront 2 layout of Hoth for this.

Remember that the AT-AT's don't have the ability to actually enter Echo Base, so Rieekan can hunker down and set up traps within the base and position the bulk of his forces in the Rebel staging area at the 'back' of Echo Base, which I don't believe the AT-AT's can reach. Then it's only a matter of time until Veers run out of troops.

After that, Rieekan can deploy his snowspeeders to flank the AT-AT's and take them out with the tow cables, because by the time they can react, the speeders will have latched a tow cable on them. And then he can also have the Wilderness fighters flank them and hit any remaining AT-ST's with rockets and get under the AT-AT's and hit the underbelly.

Now, I don't think the AT-ATs can get to that staging area, but if they can, then this scenario is pointless as the AT-ATs can flank the rebels just as effectively.

However, I do remember managing to get the AT-AT back there on Battlefront 2 so there's that.
Added Chapter 61 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.24.2013 , 06:15 PM | #18
Theres only 3 AT-ATs now, so I think Rieekan can deal with them using Snowspeeders while the other walkers/turrets and the like take on the other vehicles that Veers brings forth. Remember now, that Echo Base did have trenches and also anti-infantry and anti-vehicle batteries, DF,9 anti-infantry and 1.4 FD P-Tower laser cannons and while the cannons aren't effective against AT-ATs they can be against AT-STs and the like.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Blackholeskipper's Avatar


Blackholeskipper
02.25.2013 , 04:46 AM | #19
Wait, how come the Empire never used TIE fighters to provide air support? Are they unable to operate in an atmospheric environment? Seems odd given that X-Wings can. Why not just swoop down from their fleet in space and own the rebels? Illogical!

SNCommand's Avatar


SNCommand
02.25.2013 , 05:15 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Theres only 3 AT-ATs now, so I think Rieekan can deal with them using Snowspeeders while the other walkers/turrets and the like take on the other vehicles that Veers brings forth. Remember now, that Echo Base did have trenches and also anti-infantry and anti-vehicle batteries, DF,9 anti-infantry and 1.4 FD P-Tower laser cannons and while the cannons aren't effective against AT-ATs they can be against AT-STs and the like.
But what's the point then? You're artificially downsizing Veers forces and boosting those of Rieekan to produce a victory for the Alliance, it would be better then to choose a battlefield with two commanders on equal footing
Quote: Originally Posted by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
Personally I would slap Georges hands away from the editing desk, give him a colouring book and then remake the entire prequel trilogy so that Darth Vader uses the force to win breakdance competitions and chokes to death anyone who utters the word midichlorians.