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Proof that Gunnery is fully viable with a rifle

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Proof that Gunnery is fully viable with a rifle

wishihadaname's Avatar


wishihadaname
02.23.2013 , 11:38 AM | #1
I've caught flack before for not liking cannons and instead opting to use a rifle. I've decided to put this to a rigorous test by doing a 3 minute parsed run with identical rotations but different weapons. The gear, mods, spec, and target dummy were the exact same in both runs except that in round 1 I had the mods in a rifle, and in round 2 I had them in a cannon. Here is the breakdown of major differences.

When using a rifle I had:
-1% weaker full auto average hit
-11% weaker full auto max crit (not sure on that one, could have gotten a higher one theoretically with a rifle, just didn't show up in the parse).
-0.06% STRONGER grav round (due to numerical discrepancy probably).
-14% weaker HiB max crit
-10% weaker HiB average (these two are significant, I will yield that).
-3% lower DPS overall.
-*demo round stats not included since it didn't crit during the rifle run. The 10% crit during the cannon run skewed its average.

Here is the link so you can verify these.
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlo...ew#d=0,t=1,b=1

Overall, it really isn't that big of a deal, in PVE the burst of individual skills matters far less than the overall dps. And a loss of 3% could just as easily be due to the fact that I had an ammo hickup during my rifle run as due to the fact that cannons are supposedly better. In PVP I will concede that the loss of maximum burst is problematic, however, I can tell you that based off of personal experience, I feel as though I get targeted far less frequently while using a rifle. In the heat of a fight most people aren't going to be checking every enemies ammo cell or looking for the little class symbols.

Overall: Its perfectly viable to use a rifle for both PVP and PVE if you are willing to accept a ~3% damage nerf.

Note: This was on PTS using the provided arkanian gear.
-Dimitri Dolohov, lvl 55 Lethality OP. Toxic personality (Retired until viable again)
-Sgt. Amit Dolohov, lvl 55 Gunny Mando,. Rifle wielding hipster.
I'de rather lose a real fight than win via premade.

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
02.23.2013 , 12:18 PM | #2
And if the situation arises where you need to use Hail of Bolts?

Not knocking you for disliking the autocannons, but why limit yourself from using all of your abilities?

Simply put, viable yes, optimized, no.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
02.23.2013 , 01:21 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by wishihadaname View Post

Overall: Its perfectly viable to use a rifle for both PVP and PVE if you are willing to accept a ~3% damage nerf.

Note: This was on PTS using the provided arkanian gear.
Not willing to do that. If you're willing to do that you're a bad. By your logic also perfectly viable to play without relics completely (3% of 2k DPS is 60 DPS).

If you're that against auto cannons why in God's name didn't you just roll a vanguard?
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

wishihadaname's Avatar


wishihadaname
02.23.2013 , 02:17 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
And if the situation arises where you need to use Hail of Bolts?

Not knocking you for disliking the autocannons, but why limit yourself from using all of your abilities?

Simply put, viable yes, optimized, no.
Well I lose 2 abilities, charged bolts which is a weaker version of grav round anyways, and hail of bolts, which is expensive and doesn't do anything that you can't do with the new triple fired explosive rounds for cheaper and while moving.

Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Not willing to do that. If you're willing to do that you're a bad. By your logic also perfectly viable to play without relics completely (3% of 2k DPS is 60 DPS).

If you're that against auto cannons why in God's name didn't you just roll a vanguard?
I play a commando because I like the playstyle, just not the weapon. The vanguard makes no sense to me because a guy with a rifle and no force powers or way to defend against lightsabers should be shooting people, not hitting them with the butt of his rifle while getting chopped in the face. I also like the commandos ability to self heal and not be reliant on the healer as much.

As for the 3% damage loss, as long as you pass the enrage timer who cares? If I were doing nightmare mode ops where every ounce of dps was needed then i'de take a cannon, and i've actually got one stored away for that. For everything else though, enough is enough and more then enough doesn't make much of a difference.
-Dimitri Dolohov, lvl 55 Lethality OP. Toxic personality (Retired until viable again)
-Sgt. Amit Dolohov, lvl 55 Gunny Mando,. Rifle wielding hipster.
I'de rather lose a real fight than win via premade.

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
02.23.2013 , 04:06 PM | #5
So you did a 194 second parse and a 7 minute parse and cherry picked results in order to minimize the blaster rifle's deficiency. Your results are completely invalid.

I agree that player skill will affect DPS output more than gear, and Commando + Blaster Rifle is certainly viable. But is Commando + Blaster Rifle a gimped spec? Yes. Are you hurting your ops group by playing this spec? Yes.

jesseleeca's Avatar


jesseleeca
02.23.2013 , 04:07 PM | #6
The question is "why would you take any kind of nerf?"
Even if the 3%, if it is indeed 3%, nerf isn't much, why? If you're raiding there is no reason, none at all, to go for lower dps when you can have higher. It's not as if we have dps to spare when compared to other classes.
[Prophecy of the Five] <The Crushers>
Havok-leader Lvl 55 Commando DPS/Combat Medic Gunnery PvE Guide
Transference Lvl 60 Guardian Tank/DPS
Morehots Lvl 60 Scoundrel Healer

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
02.23.2013 , 04:56 PM | #7
of course it's viable. it's just clearly not optimal at all.

saying something is viable doesn't mean much. it's 'viable' to go without set bonuses, without using all of your skill points, with a commando barrel instead of reflex, but no one's going to do that if they can avoid it.

i don't really understand the point of this thread.

wishihadaname's Avatar


wishihadaname
02.23.2013 , 07:45 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by MGNMTTRN View Post
So you did a 194 second parse and a 7 minute parse and cherry picked results in order to minimize the blaster rifle's deficiency. Your results are completely invalid.
Actually, if you used the tabs and looked at the numbers, it was a 194 second and a 200 second fight. You probably looked at the overall combination and then one individual fight.

As for the point of this thread, games are meant to be played and enjoyed. I do not enjoy using cannons because I think they looks ridiculous. If relics made my character fart bubbles whenever they procced I wouldn't use them either. The point of the thread is that in this case, I can both enjoy my own play style and be just as effective as any other DPS. As for the 3% damage difference, thats just between these two runs. Repeated enough time I could probably get runs where my dps was 3% higher with a rifle simply due to RNG because the overall difference in abilities is so small. Long story short, using a rifle does not impact dps in any statistically significant* way.

Mainly I put this thread up so that I could save a URL and then copy paste it to chat every time someone started complaining to me or calling me a bad for using a rifle. For those that haven't seen, I also have a pvp vid on this forum in which I am using a rifle, see for yourself how well that works.

*For those of you who haven't taken stats, if an experimental result varies at 5% or less between the control (aka normal or in this case cannon wielding) and the treatment group (same rotation/gear/target but using a rifle), then it is not considered to be a valid difference because there is a high probability that the discrepancy is based on random chance alone.
-Dimitri Dolohov, lvl 55 Lethality OP. Toxic personality (Retired until viable again)
-Sgt. Amit Dolohov, lvl 55 Gunny Mando,. Rifle wielding hipster.
I'de rather lose a real fight than win via premade.

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
02.24.2013 , 12:22 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by wishihadaname View Post
As for the point of this thread, games are meant to be played and enjoyed. I do not enjoy using cannons because I think they looks ridiculous.
then don't use cannons. you don't need to make a thread to validate your choice to others.

Tygrys's Avatar


Tygrys
02.24.2013 , 03:58 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
then don't use cannons. you don't need to make a thread to validate your choice to others.
Try telling that to the "pros". The whole 3% less damage is gonna drive them ******* insane when they realize you're using a rifle instead of an auto cannon. Besides I've yet to play an operation and I doubt I'd be let in one if I would be using a rifle just because of that whole 3% less damage and them all going "omg uninstall noob" "dont know how to play class" etc., etc.