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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

Canino's Avatar


Canino
02.22.2013 , 06:49 PM | #11
I think I'll bring out the big guns now- Traya's assassins are useless. What? Let me explain.

Remember in KOTOR 2, when you first get off Peragus and ask Kreia who the assassins are? Well her answer is her own downfall. IIRC she states something along the lines of," Because you were cut of from the force the assassins were unable to track you or even find you." No one in G0-T0's power base that we know of is force sensitive, except Mira, so Traya's assassins are useless. Also, because of their ability to grow in strength with the force powers of their opponents, they would be literally bantha podo. Would this work? Well, in KOTOR 2, Kreia also states that that is why the Exile can defeat the assassins so easily- because of the fact that the exile is relearning the force, and so are the assassins.

We also know that the only reason the exile was even found was because of luck by an HK droid. In truth, this is a battle that Traya will be unable to use her assassins in. Because of the nature of her enemy, one of her greatest strengths is gone.

"Those sith assassins can sense their prey through the Force - it is like a hunger, they feed… and grow stronger… when they are near Force Sensitives. The stronger their prey is in the deadlier they became. As long as you were cut off from it, you were able to evade their sight. But after Peragus, I fear that you will be no longer shielded from their eyes or the eyes of their masters. The stronger you grow, the more will come."
-Kreia
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.22.2013 , 07:22 PM | #12
G0-T0 has an answer for the Sith too.

HK-50s were made to be Jedi-killers, and were based off HK-47, who had countless force-sensitive kills. They're more than capable of taking down Sith.

But also, Myrkr.

1.) G0-T0 would know of this planet
Myrkr was discovered, or brought to center-stage, during the Mandalorian Wars, which happened extremely close to when G0-T0 was in power. With his vast knowledge of the underworld, galactic politics, and galactic history, he knows of it and what the planet holds. It would be a simple thing for him to aquire the animals of the planet, seeing as both were sold on the Black Market.

2.) Vornskr
These beast are vicious canines that hunt using the Force. They would probably be empowered by the Dark Side Nexus of Malachor and would be skilled at taking down Sith, as they travel in packs and specialize in ripping people to shreds (after paralyzing them with their tails).

3.) Ysalamir
These amazing reptiles mitigate force usage in the area surrounding them. No more lightning, no more force-leaps, nothing. The area expands while they're in groups, so if G0-T0 were to deploy a couple of these with each of his HK units, they'd be unstoppable. These ysalamir could also stop the effects of the Drak Side Nexus, allowing G0-T0 to land non-force sensitive troops on the planet.


Oh, btw, the Gand were mostly force-sensitive. So G0-T0 would have more than just HK-50s on Malachor. Not to mention the thousands of droids on Nar Shaddaa he controls.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.22.2013 , 07:46 PM | #13
I really question the validity of HK-47 and killing jedi, what proof is there? Sure he can be programmed to kill Jedi and would have knowledge of them, but has it ever been actually used lore wise? HK-50s never really impressed me either....

That isn't to say, they couldn't kill Jedi...but the evidence is sorely lacking, 47 or 50s never really shown anything remarkable that IG-88 or an IG series assassin droid couldn't do if not better. Unless of course, I could be swayed if the evidence is presented and by evidence I mean a showing somewhere in a cutscene,book, comic, etc.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.22.2013 , 08:05 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
I really question the validity of HK-47 and killing jedi, what proof is there? I could be swayed if the evidence is presented and by evidence I mean a showing somewhere in a cutscene,book, comic, etc.
Well, there's this convo,(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nuswhere) HK-47 tells you exactly how he kills Jedi, and the most effective way to do it. He sounds like he's done it quite a few times.

We also know the relative strength of the HK-50s by looking at HK-51s in SWTOR. It could be argued that HK-47 did take on two sith and two skilled blastermen and (though he lost) put up quite a fight, based on the Flashpoints.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.22.2013 , 08:17 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Well, there's this convo,(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nuswhere) HK-47 tells you exactly how he kills Jedi, and the most effective way to do it. He sounds like he's done it quite a few times.

We also know the relative strength of the HK-50s by looking at HK-51s in SWTOR. It could be argued that HK-47 did take on two sith and two skilled blastermen and (though he lost) put up quite a fight, based on the Flashpoints.
The convo doesn't really say much, again he was programmed to be an assassin jedi killer droid so he would have knowledge of tactics in how to take out a jedi. Saying something, and then executing it are two very different things given all of the variables that can happen between the time the assassin reaches the target to the time the attack is made.

While right, but there is some difference between a 50 and 51. Though your right 47 did do that, based on the Flashpoints(of course we really don't know how it went down since the fight is really gameplay, were probably gonna have to wait.) Am I saying an HK-47 or 50 or 51 couldn't take out a Jedi or Sith?....No, but so far their track record has been less then stellar.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.22.2013 , 08:56 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
...executing it are two very different things given all of the variables that can happen between the time the assassin reaches the target to the time the attack is made.

...so far their track record has been less then stellar.
Both could be said about Traya's assassins. Her Sith and Powerbase also leave something to be desired it seems.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.22.2013 , 10:10 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Both could be said about Traya's assassins. Her Sith and Powerbase also leave something to be desired it seems.
This is true.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
02.23.2013 , 02:17 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Traya is blind. She cannot sense the droids with the Force. A HK-50 assassination will work.

Note that HK-47's and T3's fates were unknown to Traya, she could not sense their future. Which means she will not be able to foresee a HK-50 attack. Nor will she be able to sense their presense, and they're assassin droids. They won't be giving anything away with sound, etc. She can't see them. She's blind in more ways than one.

Also, pre-cog "spidey-sense" works seconds before danger, not as it is approaching. So even if she force-cloaked, she'd already have blaster bolts flying at her from HKs she didn't even know were there.
Traya had expressed a disdain for droids on several occasions to the Jedi Exile. I don't think she will be taking GOTO seriously enough in this encounter.

(Unless she is unaware that he is a droid... the Kaggath only states that they are aware of each other, not that they know each other's secrets. GOTO was quite protective of his actual identity, masquerading as a human Exchange member)

Traya's underestimation of droids, coupled with her inability to see would certainly make her vulnerable to assassination by HK-50 Units, but not necessarily easy prey. Remember, she is still surrounded by Sith Assassins in her Academy on Malachor V, and so reaching her would be difficult without raising an alarm. It's more likely that the HK-50 units would kill her sometime during the war, while she was on the move and had fewer layers of security for them to penetrate.

The other variable to consider is whether GOTO can reactivate the Mass Shadow Generator on his own. It seemed that it was only with Bao-Dur's programming that the remote was able to prepare the weapon to be fired again. It might require significant efforts to trigger the MSG, both in the research phase and the physical arming of the weapon. This could alert Darth Traya that something was afoot and give her time to evacuate her stronghold on Malachor V.

Now, what are GOTO's vulnerabilities? His yacht is an easy target if decloaked, and he himself possesses very little in the way of combat abilities. His reliance on droids can backfire if those droids are reprogrammed or sabotaged, and due to his obsession with holograms and inability to meet anyone in person, it could be possible to spread misinformation among his allies and minions by transmitting false messages from him or otherwise impersonating GOTO (or a droid acting under his orders, as we see with T3M4 infiltrating the warehouse on Nar Shadaa).

The question is, what would the best opening moves be for each side?
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
02.23.2013 , 02:29 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
G0-T0 has an answer for the Sith too.
But also, Myrkr.

1.) G0-T0 would know of this planet
Myrkr was discovered, or brought to center-stage, during the Mandalorian Wars, which happened extremely close to when G0-T0 was in power. With his vast knowledge of the underworld, galactic politics, and galactic history, he knows of it and what the planet holds. It would be a simple thing for him to aquire the animals of the planet, seeing as both were sold on the Black Market.

2.) Vornskr
These beast are vicious canines that hunt using the Force. They would probably be empowered by the Dark Side Nexus of Malachor and would be skilled at taking down Sith, as they travel in packs and specialize in ripping people to shreds (after paralyzing them with their tails).

3.) Ysalamir
These amazing reptiles mitigate force usage in the area surrounding them. No more lightning, no more force-leaps, nothing. The area expands while they're in groups, so if G0-T0 were to deploy a couple of these with each of his HK units, they'd be unstoppable. These ysalamir could also stop the effects of the Drak Side Nexus, allowing G0-T0 to land non-force sensitive troops on the planet.
I cropped your quote a little, since the part I want to address is the Ysalamir. While they are known of, it was not possible to successfully separate them from the trees which they grew/lived on without knowledge of certain methods for doing so. These methods were only developed in the period after the fall of the Galactic Empire, sometime during the Thrawn Campaigns, or a little earlier.

The other creatures, and particularly the more vicious specimens of Dxun and Onderon, are all viable candidates for weapons... although remember that the Sith are the ones with beastmasters capable of taming many of these dangerous creatures through the Force. I certainly wouldn't want a http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zakkeg running wild on my ship...
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.23.2013 , 06:03 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
(Unless she is unaware that he is a droid... the Kaggath only states that they are aware of each other, not that they know each other's secrets. GOTO was quite protective of his actual identity, masquerading as a human Exchange member)

Now, what are GOTO's vulnerabilities? He himself possesses very little in the way of combat abilities.

His reliance on droids can backfire...

The question is, what would the best opening moves be for each side?
Unfortunately, for what reason I still do not fully understand, each and every Kaggath player knows that G0-T0 is adroid, as per K-canon. No idea why, it just.... is.

G0-T0 is actually very skilled in combat. In KOTOR 2 he was my favorite companion (Surprise, right?) because of his extensive use of stealth, his ability to corrupt the droids of others, and his skill with demolitions and blaster pistols. G0-T0's stealth will allow him to avoid detection (for sure from Sith Assassins and Traya) and allow him to ambush other forces. G0-T0 can handle himself.

I don't think G0-T0 will be loosing control of his droids anytime soon. His yacht is the droid control ship, so I'm not even sure if it's possible to hack them while they're under its command. Also, G0-T0 was known for his hacking of droids, he's an expert of it, even able to corrupt them in person. I doubt Traya will have a better slicer than G0-T0. Actually, we have no idea if Traya uses such things as cyber-warfare, and if she does, it's probably safe to assume that her hackers/slicers are sub-par to G0-T0 and his securities.

I think the openning move for G0-T0 would be..... well, okay, realistically, it would be to gather his forces. Move his HK-50s, buy some Vornskr, gather the Gand nest, etc. But the action starts when G0-T0 invades Malachor. You're right, Traya will underestimate G0-T0, she did in KOTOR 2. Thus making G0-T0 the aggressor, seeing as Traya probably assumes she is safe on her mega-fortress.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?