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Non-geared players in Gree Event


jamescloutier's Avatar


jamescloutier
02.20.2013 , 12:20 PM | #41
I did this 7 time last week between SM and HM on a couple different toons. Every toon I brought to a group was at least close to full 61 and has been completely through HM TFB at least once. So take my opinion for what it's worth.

The OP talked about Story Mode. A 16 man group of fresh 50s with the free gear can do this. There are videos of 8 man teams doing 16 man mode. I've completed it with 10 (3 pugs). Story mode is there so content can be accessible to a larger amount of people and I think they did a good job with that.

Some people talked about HM version. This one I can see asking for a min gear requirement (beyond any level 50 gear) especially from tanks and healers. Tanks get hit hard and healer need to work to keep up. DPS I can see being less strict on as most 16 man groups will have 10-11 DPSer. But even with it being harder I was a part of completing twice with a group of 9+ pugs. Both time we wiped twice and killed it on the 3rd go. I also wiped 10 times in a different group before it got called off. So asking for a level of gear that makes the organizer comfortable is quite understandable. And the hazmat gear that drops from here are the highest ranked PvE gear in the game (even if some of the pieces are itemized poorly).

Now if you donít like how someone else is running a group, then by all means put one together yourself. I know after seeing it last week multiple time Iíll probably be throwing together a couple of groups this time around so I can make sure to get all my desired runs in this week.

JaborAnDubhar's Avatar


JaborAnDubhar
02.20.2013 , 12:31 PM | #42
Made it through Xenoanalyst 2 Hardmode with 2 Recruit-Mk.2 DDs just 2 Days ago (one of them was my Guardian, having no gear, because I "robbed" him after I decided to make him a pure event- and crafting-char). Was no big deal, Xeno-2 was beaten first try with only one dead player (tank).

I`m German, so excuse my bad English, please...
Aurek
veteran and founder of Jarkai Sword, fellow soldier and tank of Rambovi's Eight, member of The-Force.

supremezephyr's Avatar


supremezephyr
02.20.2013 , 02:04 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Radzkie View Post
Experienced/geared players are not obligated to carry fresh 50s through harder/any content.
Yes we are if we ever want to become a community half of minecrafts than it i our responsibility to bring others into he game and help them get established in the game of 50 if no one did then what i swtor SINGLEPLAYER an MMORPG thats singleplayer. I have NEVER heard of that

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.20.2013 , 02:15 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by supremezephyr View Post
Yes we are if we ever want to become a community half of minecrafts than it i our responsibility to bring others into he game and help them get established in the game of 50 if no one did then what i swtor SINGLEPLAYER an MMORPG thats singleplayer. I have NEVER heard of that
I think you're missing the operative word in Radzkie's post: "carry"

Carrying someone through an operation isn't the same thing as helping someone.

I myself have run a tremendous amount of pugs both in flashpoints and operations. I've given advice (and taken advice), helped people (and been helped), worked with massively overgeared players and woefully undergeared onces.

And yet, the one thing that annoys me in the player that is expecting to be "carried"

It's an attitude thing. Had the OP come to the forums looking for advice, that's a different story. Instead he provided a poorly-written hard-to-read block of text whining about Nazi's.

See the difference?

jamescloutier's Avatar


jamescloutier
02.20.2013 , 02:25 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by supremezephyr View Post
Yes we are if we ever want to become a community half of minecrafts than it i our responsibility to bring others into he game and help them get established in the game of 50 if no one did then what i swtor SINGLEPLAYER an MMORPG thats singleplayer. I have NEVER heard of that
There is a huge difference between carrying players and assisting them to improve. Nothing shuts me down from helping a person quicker than having them expect everything be handed to them. I'm more than happy to share what I know and what works for me. I've been fine with taking my over geared toons to lower FP/OP so a fresh 50 can get a jump start. But if they aren't trying to push themselves then why should I push for them?

Now I agree that people rush to judgment and just because they aren't putting up top flight numbers or holding agro quiet well enough in a very small sample size that they can get cast aside because "they are of no us to the group". Been on the short end of that stick before because I had an awful 1st night in a new guild. The ones who are willing to be a part of the community pick themselves up and get better and show that they have something to bring to the table. The ones who want to be carried find new people to carry them.

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LordMalic
02.20.2013 , 02:30 PM | #46
Don't worry last night on Shadowlands server someone was asking for WB's in Tionese gear...I laughed.
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JoeeyyMagzz's Avatar


JoeeyyMagzz
02.20.2013 , 02:37 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by jamescloutier View Post
Some people talked about HM version. This one I can see asking for a min gear requirement (beyond any level 50 gear) especially from tanks and healers. Tanks get hit hard and healer need to work to keep up.
I agree with all of your post except for the part about healers needing gear... On my Sage, I healed HM TFB (8-man) with another Sage who was in unaugmented Columi gear. I definitely carried him through a lot of fights (doing 250k or more healing than him), but he did well enough that we only wiped twice in the entire Operation... and I even felt comfortable enough on some fights to slack off a little. Healers who have half a brain that functions can heal through almost any content as long as they have at least full Columi gear. The only fight they would struggle on is NiM Kephess, but by then I'm hoping they have more gear

On to the topic at hand... Honestly, this game was designed in a way that makes it so skill > gear for most PvE content; again, this is minus NiM Kephess because he was designed to be difficult. So, throwing someone out of STORY MODE content because they "lack" gear is extremely stupid, selfish, and not even worth defending. Repair costs went up? You shouldn't be wiping on 16-man SM content if you have at least 8 absolutely capable, over-geared players which it sounds like there were from the OP. If you do kick one person from 16m SM content for being "under-geared" then you're proving that you are the bad player, imo. It's SM content, the other guys aren't even carrying the under-geared guy because the SM content was designed specifically for the under-geared players!!!!! ... rofl

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.20.2013 , 03:07 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by JoeeyyMagzz View Post
... So, throwing someone out of STORY MODE content because they "lack" gear is extremely stupid, selfish, and not even worth defending. ...
You make good points and I do understand where you're coming from.

But this particular statement stands out to me. I'd like to argue in the opposite direction.

Gear is so ridiculously easy to get, why would you want to group with someone who is too lazy / stupid to obtain it? Did you see the post about the tank and dps who were running a HM FP in level 40 gear? With free Tionese available? That's either someone who is purposefully downgearing for a challenge or is so clueless about how the game works that they're more likely to be a hazard than an asset.

How about the guy trying to pug SM EC in Tionese? SURE you can do it in Tionese with a good group. But it is So. Damn. Easy to obtain better gear, why does this guy not have any by the time he's asking to pug SM EC?

I go back to an earlier point I made. When I first hit level 50 I wanted to make sure I was contributing to the group and wouldn't be a drag. First operation I joined dropped me because my hp was too low. I didn't whine and moan. I ran some more HM FPs, got some more gear, and posted on the forum asking for advice on becoming a better player.

Isn't that a healthier attitude than, "those elitist creeps are being mean!"

Maern's Avatar


Maern
02.20.2013 , 06:33 PM | #49
Well, I'm just glad that I found this thread just now.

'Cause I'm not a frequent player in SWTOR for a number of reasons. Damn, I still have only one lvl 50 char - my tankassin - with mix of Tionesse, old Champion, even some recruit gear. That was enough for usual PvE, while I was leveling up other chars...

So, I didn't play my tankassin from... mmm... November, I think. Then, the event come and I decided to take this char back to the action, with all this curious stuff...

First, I had to solo-tank 8m Xeno. Then, it was 16m Xeno. A couple of wampa WB's...

And then I've encountered one of your kind, ppl... I had to switch to DPS mode (for a wampa again) just because one of the laughing, hard-worked, blah-blah-blah, kept whining for about 20 minutes that we need more tanks because "that guy still running outdated PvP gear..."

Ok, it's pretty late at my place and I'll try to sum up - in Gree event, Wampa, Worm and even Xeno SM can be carried with some players not in complete "at least columi" gear. It depends on skill, teamwork and a bit of luck. But most ppl from this thread don't want to take a risk, as I see.

I do not pretend to run HM's with this gear, but c'mon... kicking out player from SM's?
The information was his passion...
And the killing was his business.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
02.20.2013 , 07:03 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Maern View Post
Well, I'm just glad that I found this thread just now.

'Cause I'm not a frequent player in SWTOR for a number of reasons. Damn, I still have only one lvl 50 char - my tankassin - with mix of Tionesse, old Champion, even some recruit gear. That was enough for usual PvE, while I was leveling up other chars...

So, I didn't play my tankassin from... mmm... November, I think. Then, the event come and I decided to take this char back to the action, with all this curious stuff...

First, I had to solo-tank 8m Xeno. Then, it was 16m Xeno. A couple of wampa WB's...

And then I've encountered one of your kind, ppl... I had to switch to DPS mode (for a wampa again) just because one of the laughing, hard-worked, blah-blah-blah, kept whining for about 20 minutes that we need more tanks because "that guy still running outdated PvP gear..."

Ok, it's pretty late at my place and I'll try to sum up - in Gree event, Wampa, Worm and even Xeno SM can be carried with some players not in complete "at least columi" gear. It depends on skill, teamwork and a bit of luck. But most ppl from this thread don't want to take a risk, as I see.

I do not pretend to run HM's with this gear, but c'mon... kicking out player from SM's?
TY for proving my point, the problem is that many people expect gear to compensate for skill, but at the end of the day skill trumps gear.

Example: me and two other level 35s back in Dec 2011 got attacked by a level 50. We cc'd him back and forth and won. Why? Because despite having better gear he was a terrible player and we weren't. Skill trumped gear that day as it has on many a day since.
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