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Expertise system

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JackNader's Avatar


JackNader
02.19.2013 , 09:34 AM | #1
just a thought.

All your gear currently has a certain "rating." I believe the best gear is currently rated 63 for both PvE and PvP. The PvE versions have increased stats because the PvP ones have an expertise rating. Expertise is designed to prevent PvE players from acquiring the best gear without ever having played a single PvP match. Fair enough IMO.

However what tends to happen is that PvE players will still join warzones in full PvE gear thinking its better than recruit or, because of diminishing returns on expertise, PvP players tend to wear PvE items as a way of boosting their damage output.

What if expertise didn't exist but instead all PvP gear has a +2 rating. For instance. PvE 63 would be equal to PvP 61 + 2. PvP 63 would be equivalent to PvE 65. A similar system could also be introduced for PvE so that all PvE gear is considered +2 when PvEing. All you would need to do is set a base 63 and apply a bolster for PvE and PvP environments.

RobHinkle's Avatar


RobHinkle
02.20.2013 , 03:01 PM | #2 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Thanks for the ideas! We are actually making some changes to the expertise system and how bolster interacts with the players in an upcoming Game Update (more info on this Update coming VERY soon), and this seems like a reasonable place to reveal some details about it, so buckle up and hold on!

To give everyone a common base of knowledge, let me briefly discuss how bolster and expertise work on the live servers as of right now (Game Update 1.7). Expertise is pretty easy, it is a diminishing returns rating that increases the damage output against other players, gives damage reduction against other players, and increases healing on targets who are in PvP. As you get higher in value of expertise, you need more and more rating to achieve the same increase (hence, the diminishing returns). Expertise only comes on PvP items, but inside PvP expertise is designed to be better bang for your buck than normal "PvE" stats.

The bolster system looks at a player's level and makes an assumption of the stats a player at that level would have and increases them to a target level defined by the designers. Bolster totally ignores what the player ACTUALLY has for stats, it doesn't matter if you are naked or fully geared out, it will give you the same bonuses either way. Notably, bolster will *not* give any expertise stat in Game Update 1.7.

In a major upcoming Game Update, everything changes, woo! Expertise still touches the same 3 functions (damage out, damage in, and healing out), but is no longer is a diminished return value, you get the same increase in power for the same increase in expertise, regardless of going from 0 to 20 or 2000 to 2020. We've also cranked up just how much expertise enhances each of these functions, so having good expertise is more important than ever. Additionally, expertise is no longer a stat that will grow throughout a tier of items, all PvP gear will generate the same total of expertise (caveat: This statement only applies starting with the new gear in the new update. Previous PvP gear will not quite have the fully intended expertise totals).

The bigger change is in how we bolster and add stats to players to even out the playing field. Instead of focusing on player level, now the bolster system will take a look at each individual item on your character and use that as the baseline assumption of power for that item slot. We then bolster each slot up to what we feel is the "entry level" of PvP power, at which we think everyone can be happy playing without getting simply out geared to death. Effectively, we bolster players to something like what our recruit gear set tries to do now in 1.7, but with much better accuracy and effect. Additionally, the bolster system will now grant players expertise when it feels it is necessary, bringing our entry-level power gap even closer to the end-game PvP power.


All of this put together should make our Warzone matches much more about skill in this future game update, and less about people who simply aren't in the correct gear, while still giving our PvPers some better gear out there to strive for.

Thanks for listening!
Rob Hinkle | Senior Designer
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Gerbanator's Avatar


Gerbanator
02.20.2013 , 03:11 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
Thanks for the ideas! We are actually making some changes to the expertise system and how bolster interacts with the players in an upcoming Game Update (more info on this Update coming VERY soon), and this seems like a reasonable place to reveal some details about it, so buckle up and hold on!

To give everyone a common base of knowledge, let me briefly discuss how bolster and expertise work on the live servers as of right now (Game Update 1.7). Expertise is pretty easy, it is a diminishing returns rating that increases the damage output against other players, gives damage reduction against other players, and increases healing on targets who are in PvP. As you get higher in value of expertise, you need more and more rating to achieve the same increase (hence, the diminishing returns). Expertise only comes on PvP items, but inside PvP expertise is designed to be better bang for your buck than normal "PvE" stats.

The bolster system looks at a player's level and makes an assumption of the stats a player at that level would have and increases them to a target level defined by the designers. Bolster totally ignores what the player ACTUALLY has for stats, it doesn't matter if you are naked or fully geared out, it will give you the same bonuses either way. Notably, bolster will *not* give any expertise stat in Game Update 1.7.

In a major upcoming Game Update, everything changes, woo! Expertise still touches the same 3 functions (damage out, damage in, and healing out), but is no longer is a diminished return value, you get the same increase in power for the same increase in expertise, regardless of going from 0 to 20 or 2000 to 2020. We've also cranked up just how much expertise enhances each of these functions, so having good expertise is more important than ever. Additionally, expertise is no longer a stat that will grow throughout a tier of items, all PvP gear will generate the same total of expertise (caveat: This statement only applies starting with the new gear in the new update. Previous PvP gear will not quite have the fully intended expertise totals).

The bigger change is in how we bolster and add stats to players to even out the playing field. Instead of focusing on player level, now the bolster system will take a look at each individual item on your character and use that as the baseline assumption of power for that item slot. We then bolster each slot up to what we feel is the "entry level" of PvP power, at which we think everyone can be happy playing without getting simply out geared to death. Effectively, we bolster players to something like what our recruit gear set tries to do now in 1.7, but with much better accuracy and effect. Additionally, the bolster system will now grant players expertise when it feels it is necessary, bringing our entry-level power gap even closer to the end-game PvP power.


All of this put together should make our Warzone matches much more about skill in this future game update, and less about people who simply aren't in the correct gear, while still giving our PvPers some better gear out there to strive for.

Thanks for listening!
Thank you for the response.
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Gerbanista Gerb 50 Marauder Pot5

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Okamakiri's Avatar


Okamakiri
02.20.2013 , 03:15 PM | #4
That sounds very interesting. I wonder how that will work with high end PVE gear. Does it mean that the better the item is, the less expertise it will receive from bolster? Maybe a better approach would be bolstering everyone to equal expertise level, but reducing their PVE stats based on the amount of bolster received?
Blackburn - Assassin, Dovahkėėn - Marauder, Zarakė - Jugernaut, Hamza - Mercenary, Smith - Sniper

cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.20.2013 , 03:15 PM | #5
Well at least we can put to rest the 12xx vs max expertise (again).

Polebreaker's Avatar


Polebreaker
02.20.2013 , 03:22 PM | #6
Interesting, but I think expertise/bolster issues are probably among the least important atm.

RobHinkle's Avatar


RobHinkle
02.20.2013 , 03:23 PM | #7 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by Okamakiri View Post
That sounds very interesting. I wonder how that will work with high end PVE gear. Does it mean that the better the item is, the less expertise it will receive from bolster? Maybe a better approach would be bolstering everyone to equal expertise level, but reducing their PVE stats based on the amount of bolster received?
That's basically correct. There is a certain item rating level that once an individual item slot goes over that rating, it starts only getting expertise for its bolster (no more "PvE" stats). As the item rating continues to rise, you get less and less expertise until eventually bolster doesn't get anything from that item. The result should be that in the best PvE gear, you are somewhere between the "introduction bolster" level and the top end PvP gear in power. You would still be better off swapping to PvP gear if you have it, but you aren't terrible.

Also worth pointing out that this system works on an individual item basis, so each slot itself is bolstered up independently of all of the other slots on a character, so slots can give more of a bolster bonus than others if you have a really powerful item in your chest slot, as an example, but a really behind the curve implant.
Rob Hinkle | Senior Designer
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xContex's Avatar


xContex
02.20.2013 , 03:28 PM | #8
This is a pretty significant change. My only question is will Damage output, DR, and Healing output become a 1:1:1 ratio essentially negating expertise for those in PVP gear boiling it down to personal customization and skill (while maintaining a slight advantage over PVE geared players) or will the ratios be different.
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.20.2013 , 03:28 PM | #9
Thank you Rob!!!

Is Bolster an ongoing calculation, or is it determined upon entry into a warzone? I ask because I worry that a player could abuse the new system by equipping lvl 10 green gear, then once the fight begins, switch to his EWH set.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

RobHinkle's Avatar


RobHinkle
02.20.2013 , 03:33 PM | #10 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by xContex View Post
This is a pretty significant change. My only question is will Damage output, DR, and Healing output become a 1:1:1 ratio essentially negating expertise for those in PVP gear boiling it down to personal customization and skill (while maintaining a slight advantage over PVE geared players) or will the ratios be different.
We've increased the effectiveness of Expertise over having no expertise at all, but if an attacker with full expertise is shooting at a defender will full expertise, their expertise effectively cancels each other out.
Rob Hinkle | Senior Designer
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