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1st Time Voted From a Flashpoint


DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
02.19.2013 , 01:29 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Pubsam View Post
I've leveled up an Operative and I've never seen this 'super-stealth-detection' people are claiming all droids have.

1. Bosses have insane stealth detection, and you can tell because the stealthed person will get a symbol over their head telling them they're about to be detected. A few seconds later the boss usually aggros.

2. Some (note: SOME) droids have a stealth scan ability (note: ABILITY they can activate, not a passive trait) that looks exactly like the BH's stealth scan. Yes if you stealth anywhere near that thing you will be knocked out of stealth immediately, but it's a clearly visible animation that is easily avoided.

If you stealth up to a non-boss droid that does not have a stealth-scan ability (or has just used it and the effect has faded), their stealth detection chance is the same as any other mob.
ALL droids don't, though many elites (esp in flashpoints) do have the same passive stealth detection as bosses.

The pack mentioned by the OP in Hammer Station has a pair of gold star droids that WILL spot a player in stealth long before they get in proximity agro range, WILL engage the group in combat if the player in stealth does not immediately drop stealth, and WILL switch agro to a healer if they happen to be casting heals.

While it isn't clear exactly what happened, listening to the OP go on and on about how much they know about stealth while clearly demonstrating they did NOT notice the pair of droids in that particular pull having the passive stealth detection / auto agro ability leads me to believe the group kicked the OP for pulling.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
02.19.2013 , 01:51 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Pubsam View Post
I've leveled up an Operative and I've never seen this 'super-stealth-detection' people are claiming all droids have.

1. Bosses have insane stealth detection, and you can tell because the stealthed person will get a symbol over their head telling them they're about to be detected. A few seconds later the boss usually aggros.

2. Some (note: SOME) droids have a stealth scan ability (note: ABILITY they can activate, not a passive trait) that looks exactly like the BH's stealth scan. Yes if you stealth anywhere near that thing you will be knocked out of stealth immediately, but it's a clearly visible animation that is easily avoided.

If you stealth up to a non-boss droid that does not have a stealth-scan ability (or has just used it and the effect has faded), their stealth detection chance is the same as any other mob.
There are droids with the same passive stealth detection as bosses.

As to which have this and which don't, I can't say, because there's no reason for me or anyone to stealth around elite droids in flashpoints to try and find out which is which. There's no benefit. Nothing to gain by being stealthed around a droid, might pull them, can't out of combat CC...what's the point of risking it unless you're a concealment op or a middle tree sin?

However, I'm pretty sure the beefgate mob in hammer station has them because I've seen that mob get pulled by shadows and/or smuggs in stealth from long range when I was leveling a Van tank.

iEuthanasia's Avatar


iEuthanasia
02.19.2013 , 02:13 PM | #43
There's so much rampant misinformation about droid stealth detection going on in this thread.. For starters, I can't even think of a trash pull droid in Hammer Station that has the ability to pop stealth. The large mining boss, probably. But it's also listed under the "boss" category.

I have to agree with some of the previous posters. I've leveled both an assassin tank and an operative healer, and I don't recall ever just getting randomly pulled from stealth willy nilly by random droids in FP's. There are certain "Lieutenant-esque" mobs in flashpoints like Boarding Party that see stealth the same as bosses but they are 99% of the time Champion level and fairly obvious. There are some droids that have a large green stealth scan that goes off whenever ANYONE, stealth or otherwise, enters into a certain range but it's well telegraphed and fairly common sense not to walk into for anyone who has played as much as the OP claims.

Pubsam's Avatar


Pubsam
02.19.2013 , 02:59 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
ALL droids don't, though many elites (esp in flashpoints) do have the same passive stealth detection as bosses.

The pack mentioned by the OP in Hammer Station has a pair of gold star droids that WILL spot a player in stealth long before they get in proximity agro range, WILL engage the group in combat if the player in stealth does not immediately drop stealth, and WILL switch agro to a healer if they happen to be casting heals.

While it isn't clear exactly what happened, listening to the OP go on and on about how much they know about stealth while clearly demonstrating they did NOT notice the pair of droids in that particular pull having the passive stealth detection / auto agro ability leads me to believe the group kicked the OP for pulling.
All I've got is anecdotal evidence here that says that every time I've stealthed near a non-boss non-stealth scanning droid in an FP or operation (for sleep dart purposes usually), I've never been knocked out of stealth without any warning.

The passive stealth detection bosses have ALWAYS gives you a warning before popping you out of stealth, and your entire group can see it too. I have never EVER seen a non-boss cause that warning. Maybe that one pull in Hammer Station is a fluke (probably only done it once with my Operative), but I really doubt there are mobs with boss-level stealth detection that don't give you the warning debuff.
Time for a nap.

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
02.19.2013 , 03:27 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
Is it even possible for a heal to start an encounter? I've not seen that before.

I assume by gun heal you mean Hammer Shot, which is weird since I've never seen a healing skill start an encounter. It's possible that your healer wandered into the enemies' aggro range and fired Hammer Shot at the exact same second, but then it would have been his proximity to the hostile mobs that started the fight, not the fact that he was healing you.

Basically, what Keeva just said.
Healing before starting the fight will never pull aggro on the healer, otherwise Scoundrel/Op healers who most of the times put their HoTs on the tank for the procs before the fight starts would never be able to do it without dying in the process.

It could have been a number of things but the healer moving too close to the mobs was probably what pulled aggro.

That said, of course it wasn't your fault. And even if it had been your fault... **** happens and it's not like my pixel-self dying has any real impact on me to care about it. I never vote kick a tank that's not as good as I think he should be. In fact, most of the time, I like (enjoy would be a hyperbole) tanks that do not know EXACTLY what to do because that helps me become better and keeps me on my feet when healing instead of just spamming my heals in a mechanical order.

The only tanks I hate are the ones who don't care about the healer at all. And I'm not talking about guard - that shoudl be on the highest dps - I'm talking about those tanks that will just jump on the next target even though your force/energy/ammo etc is low and you had no time to rest, those that see all mobs in the area attacking you and they just keep taunting that one silver mob like it's their life's goal to keep that one on them...

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
02.19.2013 , 03:33 PM | #46
Be glad and never let it happen again lol. Be glad it happened with this group because you may have wiped multiples times before it was all said and done.

Never let it happen again by always being in control.

One thing I hate as a tank in PUG's is dps or healers telling me how to tank. I mark as soon as I see more than one elite or a bunch of strongs. I stealth and cc one and get in position. If someone jumps in before I CC or before someone else can get off a CC i let them die. If u want to tank so bad then switch to a Tank toon and have at it. If I'm tanking and I know the fights, we go on my mark. I've been in too many 'easy' encounters and wiped because a healer or dps aggro'ed first and no CC's were done. I can leave and find another group easily.
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
02.19.2013 , 04:44 PM | #47
This anecdotal "I've never had stealth pull a robot" stuff is pointless, so I went into hammer station with a level 20 shadow.

There are robots called "boarder suppression droid" in this flashpoint. There are two at the location the thread creator is talking about. "Boarder suppression droid" aggros stealthed characters at as far away as 25 meters if you're in their line of sight. It does not drop stealth scan. It just puts a target on you and pulls about 3 seconds later. Running further away does not help. Unstealthing did the one time I tried it.

If TC was stealthed at the intersection in question, the entrance of which is about 15 meters from the closest "boarder suppression droid," he pulled the mobs, not the healer. End of story.

Moral? Don't stealth near droids. And don't be a jerk about it when you cause a wipe or you might get kicked.

shadowflit's Avatar


shadowflit
02.19.2013 , 05:57 PM | #48
Experimentation and data collection. You are awesome good sir.
Fleur
Night's Radiance
Ajunta Pall Refugee

lazyax's Avatar


lazyax
02.19.2013 , 07:21 PM | #49
actually, i think any of the "imperial mark iv sentinel droid" (elite) for example, which are everywhere in the fp Taral V, will do a stealth detection debuff (the kind that looks like a laser reticule on the stealthed player) and it is not a boss. I believe its 3-5 seconds, if the stealthed player does not unstealth within that time, the mob will unstealth the player and engage combat, anyone else in the stealthed players group will also be in combat with the mob. In fact, i went into the lvl 30ish version of taral v with my lvl50 scoundrel and tested stealth in that instance and it is obvious that level has no effect on stealth level, because as a lvl 50 scoundrel in stealth i was still getting the "laser reticule" debuff from an insane distance away from the mob, like 30m+, even in a low level fp. imo, stealth and npc mob stealth detection needs a tweaking at least for pve, but thats another discussion for another thread.

A few times i have told stealth players to unstealth near these droids because of that, and a few times i have had stealth players swear they are not the ones causing the pulls.

Strainge's Avatar


Strainge
02.19.2013 , 10:58 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
Yeah, you're wrong. See below.




The bold is exactly correct, despite you saying "no way." Stealthing near a droid further away than a healer who is near an enemy but outside aggro range will pull them every time. And since mercs are always charging superheated ion gas(? think that's what it's called), their heal aggro will overtake pull aggro in one global.

If you're stealthing near droids all the time in hammer station, you're doing it wrong and probably making a mess with unexpected pulls.

Please note that you should never stealth around bosses either. Some of them will pull at FAR outside aggro range. Off the top of my head, there's a spot in Battle of Ilum between a strong mob and a bunch of boss trash, where you will wipe the group by stealthing.




This is not correct. If the 2 DPS were powertechs or juggs, they have no CC. If they were marauders, they get CC at 28. And, incidentally, mind maze doesn't work on droids. They'll pull before you get there and it doesn't do anything against them anyway.




The merc isn't spamming his gun heal for "no reason." He's charging up a skill so it's easier for him to heal.


From what I can tell, you've been told multiple times, by multiple people, what you may have done wrong and respond by, essentially blaming everyone else, making incorrect statements about how the game works and bragging about how good you are at jugg tanking.

If your behavior in the flashpoint was anything like your responses in this thread--telling classes without CC to CC things, stealthing around robots, blaming the healer for "pulling with a heal" when it was your stealth that got the group, failing to recover aggro after the pull, telling the healer that his rotation is "annoying," then, despite all these mistakes, go into a sweet brag about how good you think you are with a jugg--it's no surprise you were kicked, and you should expect more of this as long as this behavior persists.
No. You're wrong. Plain and simple.