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What class for novice at tanking?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
What class for novice at tanking?

Marb's Avatar


Marb
02.19.2013 , 10:39 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The issue is that you don't need to stack Endurance *in any appreciable sense* in order to reach the magical 25k threshold: as I've pointed out, you can get there using an absolute *minimum* of Endurance specific gear (2 crystals and 3-4 armorings/hilts/enh/mods). Anyone that goes *beyond* that baseline level of Endurance isn't likely to be a particularly effective tank; either that or they're trying to make up for bad healers that require a larger reaction time cushion.
Again I'm not advocating against this, its just that using endurance crystals, hilt and 3-4 armorings is not using *main stat everything*, and for a jugg you would need to use more just to hit 25k. Your rationale has detail and context, its not the simple "use high main stat everything or your bad" quote I took issue with.
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The mechanical reasons that you want 25k hp are due to consistent, high incoming damage phases and potential burst damage scenarios that occur in relatively rapid succession (once every 20 seconds or so). As such, Enure wouldn't really make up for it because you're only getting the benefit of it for 10/15 seconds every 90 seconds. While Enure would cover you for the first time you need the hp cushion, it wouldn't be up for the second or likely third.
Yea, it just feels icky having to use more endurance then the other tanks, when threat generation for juggs is so far behind the other tanks. A jugg can only get away with a might hilt, everything else has to be guardian stuff *just* to hit 25k with the exo stim. Only thing left to try would be doing a switcharoo with enhancements to indirectly trade shield rating for main stat. On an unrelated note, assuming a hybrid build using force scream on cooldown, how does endurance compare to strength?
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.19.2013 , 02:04 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Marb View Post
Only thing left to try would be doing a switcharoo with enhancements to indirectly trade shield rating for main stat.
Considering the terrible returns Guardians get from Shield rating, I've contemplated recommending this, if only because Endurance otherwise comes at the cost of Strength which will bolster both threat *and* mitigation.

Quote:
On an unrelated note, assuming a hybrid build using force scream on cooldown, how does endurance compare to strength?
Endurance compared to pretty much any stat errs on the side of the other stat after you've achieved the minimum hp required. This is even more true for Guardians wherein you have the wonderful benefit of treating Strength as a mitigation stat to some extent because of Blade Barrier. However, the conversion rate between Strength and the absorb of Blade Barrier is pretty friggin' terrible and is only really apparent if/when you analyze damage taken over the course of an extended period of time so it's not going to be a major game changer. The bigger benefit is, honestly, going to be the increased damage and threat generation.
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Grumpftard's Avatar


Grumpftard
02.20.2013 , 08:31 AM | #23
Kind of off topic, but since talk was made of Juggs and threat generation....
My tank-mate in my Ops team is a Jugg. The problem started a couple weeks ago, where all of a sudden he couldn't keep threat. No gear changes... either on his part, or the DPS. Just all of a sudden.... Threat issues.
After about a week he dropped a ticket with CS. They eventually got back with him and said that during one of the runs, he popped Enraged Defense just before he died. And supposedly what happened was that it stuck and continued to effect him all this time. The CSR had him log out so they could "reset" his character and log back in.
Had it been a PUG or anybody else but my battle-buddy, I woulda called BS.
Sure as ****.... He's like super glue again. Anyone else heard any craziness like this?
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steave's Avatar


steave
02.20.2013 , 11:04 AM | #24
I actually have to disagree with those recommending swapping endurance for mainstat - there really is no point to it. I could buy it for a jugg/guardian due to force scream buff, but for other tanks having that extra cushion is useful for "oh ****" moments, like if the other tank just died and you have to tank both bosses at the same time (or tank TFB with force scream on you - the jugg tank in my guild has done it even in 16 man, buying us the time needed to res the other tank and get him back to work) or if you hit an enrage, either a hard enrage or a soft enrage triggered by mechanics such as low HP. This is especially true for shadows/assassins due to the buff to self healing - IMO it's inexcusable to make that trade with those classes, you already have the best threat of any tank and don't need to swap stuff around for that reason, and endurance actually imporves your mitigation - if you can pick it up somewhere without sacrificing mitigation you should. I even go for the B mods on my assassin for that exact reason.

RendValor's Avatar


RendValor
02.20.2013 , 09:30 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
I actually have to disagree with those recommending swapping endurance for mainstat - there really is no point to it. I could buy it for a jugg/guardian due to force scream buff, but for other tanks having that extra cushion is useful for "oh ****" moments, like if the other tank just died and you have to tank both bosses at the same time (or tank TFB with force scream on you - the jugg tank in my guild has done it even in 16 man, buying us the time needed to res the other tank and get him back to work) or if you hit an enrage, either a hard enrage or a soft enrage triggered by mechanics such as low HP. This is especially true for shadows/assassins due to the buff to self healing - IMO it's inexcusable to make that trade with those classes, you already have the best threat of any tank and don't need to swap stuff around for that reason, and endurance actually imporves your mitigation - if you can pick it up somewhere without sacrificing mitigation you should. I even go for the B mods on my assassin for that exact reason.
Just because it may be useful in those limited situations where the healers and/or the other tank are being incompetent, doesn't mean it's justified over the more optimized setup
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slafko's Avatar


slafko
02.21.2013 , 01:44 AM | #26
Not even when the "optimised" setup isn't really optimised. Not to mention neccessary.
Or even needed.

RendValor's Avatar


RendValor
02.21.2013 , 09:05 AM | #27
Well to each their own I guess, I've tried that setup and it has worked nicely for me. I'm not going to argue with people who insist on gimping themselves by stacking redundant stats *shrug*
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steave's Avatar


steave
02.21.2013 , 11:36 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by RendValor View Post
Just because it may be useful in those limited situations where the healers and/or the other tank are being incompetent, doesn't mean it's justified over the more optimized setup
It isn't "the more optimized setup". "The more optimized setup" provides absolutely no benefit since the extra DPS is so extremely negligible anyway, and any decent tank will hold aggro regardless. Having some kind of benefit (extra buffer) > having no benefit.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.21.2013 , 02:39 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
It isn't "the more optimized setup". "The more optimized setup" provides absolutely no benefit since the extra DPS is so extremely negligible anyway, and any decent tank will hold aggro regardless. Having some kind of benefit (extra buffer) > having no benefit.
You're essentially saying that the extra DPS is no benefit whatsoever while others are saying that the extra buffer is no benefit whatsoever. Neither case is explicitly true and is largely founded upon personal preference and experience (especially when dealing with your healers). Those of us who prefer to drop Endurance for mainstat are generally those that rarely, if ever, drop into the "buffer zone" when tanking; as such, the buffer is useless because it provides only a marginal psychological advantage that, once you realize it's there, doesn't really have much of an impact as a real advantage. Those of you who prefer to minimize mainstat for Endurance are those that observe the laughably easy state of threat generation in game as well as the low comparative percentage contributed by increasing the tank's DPS (assuming 4 1.9k DPS and 2 750 DPS, a ~50 DPS increase from a high mainstat tank is a ~3.3% increase to total DPS) and conclude that the extra DPS doesn't serve the two primary goals of tanking (keeping aggro and staying alive) whereas the extra Endurance *does*, even if it only provides that benefit in extreme edge cases.

As long as you're maximizing mitigation, neither side is explicitly wrong. It's simply a difference of ideology and personal preference. I'm probably the most vocal proponent of sacrificing Endurance for mainstat but I'm not going to lambast someone because they chose to use high End armorings, or B variant mods, especially if they're a Shadow. I *will* lambast them if they're using those in conjunction with high End enhs and Endurance augs because that's sacrificing enough mitigation to actually reduce your real survivability.
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Pubsam's Avatar


Pubsam
03.03.2013 , 01:16 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
As long as you're maximizing mitigation, neither side is explicitly wrong. It's simply a difference of ideology and personal preference.
So, if you don't trust your healers (or your DPS to not take unnecessary damage and distract the healers), go with high endurance armorings.

If you don't trust your DPS because you hit hard enrages at 2%, get high main stat armorings.

If you trust everybody, but are pessimistic, go end.

If you trust everybody and an optimist, go main stat.

If you trust nobody well... think I'd lean toward endurance. Let's be frank, stacking main stat is more for tanks in high end, stable guilds. I don't think I'd recommend it to plebeians. I say that as a plebeian.
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