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Kaggath Tournament - Revan vs Xizor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Revan vs Xizor

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.18.2013 , 04:14 PM | #191
Alright, I'm debated out, which is bad if this is called soon and we're on to the finals. I'm sorry if I missed some arguments. Some of the recent Revan arguments have been:

a. already been debated earlier in the thread
b. exaggerated and/or underestimate many key factors
c. one-sided
d. passive-aggressive (for example, calling debaters out)

But.

I'm almost positive that with all things considered, Xizor can still win this.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Canino's Avatar


Canino
02.18.2013 , 04:44 PM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
How does Revan find Vigos? Well every time Revan invades a Black Sun base, he's going to get more and more intel on their whereabouts and the locations of other bases, as well as the location of Xizor.
Does anyone else find this to be circular reasoning? "How does Reven find the bases? He captures Vigos. How does Reven capture the Vigos? He attacks the bases." Or at least it seems that way to me. I'm being serious as well. It may just be me, I don't know.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.18.2013 , 04:45 PM | #193
OK, just to summarize death scenarios - in case anyone wants to raise some counter arguments:

Revan: Xizor provides false information as to his whereabouts (some sort of isolated space station) and that it is heavily guarded. Revan decides to deal with Xizor personally to ensure no room for failure. However its all a trap, a large fleet converges on Revan's forces and IG-86 assassin droids infiltrate Revan's ship or Xizor has his fleet concentrate maximum firepower on Revan's flagship - either way it its destroyed and him with it.

Problems:

  • Revan may not take the bait, he is cold and calculating and not one to fall into traps easily.
  • Xizor's fleet may not be enough to overwhelm Revan's forces, allowing Revan to escape (after destroying the gravity well generator) - this is possible given the fact that Revan may well have crippled Xizor's powerbase, and given that Revan and his underlings are far more tactically superior to Xizor's.
  • The IG-86 droids may fail to assassinate Revan, his ability in precognition and the heavily guarded nature of his flaghship (with droids designed to tackle boarding parties) may be enough to either facilitate Revan's escape or defeat the attackers.
  • Xizor has no way of knowing which ship is Revan's, all Interdictor's looked the same and Revan wasn't known to have commanded a Centurion at any point.

Xizor: Revan attacks and takes over a the IG-86 factory on Holowan and supplies Xizor with hacked droids (perhaps a 'new' model to ensure Xizor buys them) these droids flood Xizor's powerbase and locate the Prince then have Revan move his forces in to destroy him, undermining any attempts to escape.

or

Revan wages all out war on Xizor's powerbase, laying waste/capturing anything he can get his hands on, including Xizor's Palace on Coruscant. This has a detrimental effect on morale with Xizor's Vigos no longer liking the prospect of war with Revan. Revan approaches these Vigos and offers them money/power whatever if they usurp their leader. The Vigos, with Revan's help, have Xizor assassinated.

Problems:

  • Xizor has an extensive intelligence network at his disposal which he could likely use to monitor the status of his suppliers, and the loyalty of his Vigos, alerting him to either one of Revan's schemes.
  • Xizor has survived assassination attempts before and could evade both attacks successfully, after which success would decrease dramatically.
  • The Vigos may be hesitant to betray there leader, knowing the repercussions will be harsh if they fail.
  • Xizor could ensure his location was not even known to his Vigos, so even if they did turn, they would be useless in helping Revan track down Xizor.

P.S. Oh and Aurbere the Vigo scenario is a possible one, the Black Sun was actually pretty cut throat. Xizor for example battled with another for the position of Vigo, all the while Xizor was planning to usurp the Black Sun leader and become leader himself. Meanwhile the Black Sun leader was scheming against Xizor because he saw him as a potential threat. Pretty cut throat, lots of scheming and backstabbing. After all how do you think the Black Sun Leader is chosen?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.18.2013 , 04:49 PM | #194
Beni I really am just done, I am actually more curious about what else you have after Kaggath.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.18.2013 , 04:57 PM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
Does anyone else find this to be circular reasoning? "How does Reven find the bases? He captures Vigos. How does Reven capture the Vigos? He attacks the bases." Or at least it seems that way to me. I'm being serious as well. It may just be me, I don't know.
Lol, well there actually is a starting point to it all. Smugglers, bounty hunters, the underworld - talk to people/bribe people who have had dealings with the Black Sun, that's bound to turf up the location of several bases. And talk/take over Xizor's suppliers to, if they ship the supplies to Black Sun personally, they must have a few locations.

Xizor can't possibly hide the location of all of his bases. Central bases in particular will likely also be rather well known, in experiences playing the TOR series major crime bases after often known by the locals. I've inflitrated my fair share. And if we recall TCW, Maul has no trouble finding the Black Sun base on Mustafar, nor did he have trouble finding the Black Sun Fortress on Ralltiir or tracking down the Vigos Morn and Darnada. Remember that Black Sun isn't completely hidden, else they could never do buisness. They have 'shopfronts' if you like and well a fortresses designed to act as symbols of authority to the people they controlled (like Jabba's Palace on Tatooine) and that's where Revan would start.

Also if Revan moved fast enough, (he has forces in the Core Worlds) he could invade Xizor's Palace on Coruscant before the Prince has time to erase data on other bases, which could be a very powerful resource.

So that's the starting point, then the cycle begins.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.18.2013 , 04:57 PM | #196
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Beni I really am just done, I am actually more curious about what else you have after Kaggath.
Same here on both accounts.

Beni: I think you should hold off on the finals for a bit. I'm pretty much debated out.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.18.2013 , 04:58 PM | #197
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Same here on both accounts.

Beni: I think you should hold off on the finals for a bit. I'm pretty much debated out.
I plan to. I'll let you guys recover.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.18.2013 , 05:03 PM | #198
OK I think with exhausted every avenue of argument. So I'm going to call this soon, if you've got any final statements to make, make them.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.18.2013 , 05:04 PM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK I think with exhausted every avenue of argument. So I'm going to call this soon, if you've got any final statements to make, make them.
"To contend with Xizor, is to lose." As my final statement.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.18.2013 , 05:05 PM | #200
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK I think with exhausted every avenue of argument. So I'm going to call this soon, if you've got any final statements to make, make them.
The only last statement I can make is for everyone to not underestimate the size and scope of the Black Sun, and the devious mind of its leader.

I'll be ready for the finals (and the possible second Kaggath series?)
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus