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A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
02.16.2013 , 03:35 PM | #761
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
A load of CRAP. The so called "work" you are refering to is leveling up. The process of leveling up in itself is fun because it comes with a story that you are playing through. And even the grindy bits themselves have targets & objectives to aspire to.

The "work" you are putting in has a real purpose that is a core part of the game (and most of the time it is fun - otherwise the game is a failure). There are rewards and a sense of achievement at the end.

Why do we do class quests? To progress through the story and level up which in turn gives us access to better gear and higher level quests. There is a clear line of progression that takes you somewhere and gives you something in return for your hard "work"

Im happy to grind dailies in order to have a target bank balance of 5 million credits because that is a target i set of my choosing. I set that target for whatever reason (i want to buy something fancy from the GTN/legacy, i want to send credits to my alt to make things quicker, or im simply scrooge mcduck). Having set the target I can work to that target and have a sense of achievement that my grindy work has accomplished something.

The sense of satisfaction of having accomplished the target (whether set by myself or as part of the game) is in fact FUN.

You yourself have admitted that grinding dailies is boring and repetitive. (especially when you are sufficiently geared that you dont even have to pay much attention).

being forced to grind (work) for credits (a boring and repititive act) in order to be able to afford the repairs after a FP or ops has absolutely no purpose/target/achievement by iteself. Am i supposed to feel good after a week of grinding that I can FINALLY afford to run a NM op without the fear of going bankrupt?

That to me is no different from going to the office everyday so that I can get my paycheck which is then used to pay for my house, car, food, etc.

A game is (or rather must be) 100% pure FUN & ENTERTAINMENT. Any and all effort/work involved in the game must be fun and entertaining. Otherwise the game has lost its' reason d'etre.
The fact that leveling up and learning the fights for HM's and OP's may be more fun than doing dailies does not make those facets of this game any less "work".

The purpose, the target goal, of doing dailies, or playing the GTN might have been to have that 5 million credit bank balance, now it might simply be to be able to afford the repair costs. There is still a purpose, a target goal. It might not be one you like or even want to acknowledge, but that target goal is still there.

My point still stands, MMO's are all about grinding. Show me an MMO which is 100% fun. I'm not aware of any. Every MMO I know has at least one facet that someone considers work and not fun. So, by your definition, MMO's have no "reason d'etre"?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
02.16.2013 , 03:44 PM | #762
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
to all you people who say "there should be a mix of work and fun!" (actually ive only seen one or maybe 2) here is an interesting analogy:

If you had a car that required you to get out and clean the oil filter every 10 miles would you rather:

(A) adjust your entire schedule/lifestyle to take in to account the extra time and effort in commuting

or

(B) Scrap the car and get a new one?

I thought so...
Here's a different analogy for you:

would most people prefer to:

A) have costs lowered to the point at which they would only have to work only 1 hour a week to afford to do what they consider fun, and be able to spend more time doing the "fun" stuff

OR

B) have costs remain where they are and have to work 40 hours or more a week to be able to afford to do what they consider fun.


I thought so...cool.

Slopster's Avatar


Slopster
02.16.2013 , 03:59 PM | #763
Quote: Originally Posted by grombrinda View Post
I'm just curious as to how many people knew this was a "known bug", the previous repair cost.??
I never knew it was a bug until they did this "fix". And of all the bugs out there, Why fix that?? I didn't see anyone complaining about it....?

I really hope they are not making a cartel item for repairs..........
Certainly not on the known issues list that I can recall.

I'd also like to officially state that Stay Classy on POT5 has also suspended progression raiding until this is sorted. Had been going back and forth with it, but after seeing so many other guilds do the same I had to pull the trigger.
Slopster 55 JS / Slop 55 JK / Slew 55 SM / Sloppily 55 TR
Slather 55 SW / Slopstar 55 SI / Sludgy 55 BH / Slot 55 IA
Stay Classy
Prophecy of the Five (PVP-EST)

Characterfail's Avatar


Characterfail
02.16.2013 , 04:03 PM | #764
One thing I don't understand is how people are saying they just 'increased' the cost for social gear.

I've died twice on my main (Campaign/Dread guard geared Sage in full purple Campaign shells except level 50 orange belt/bracer, all augmented). Her repair cost was about 15k each time. Before the fix her repair cost used to average 4-5k.

That's more than a 3x increase. If the problem was social oranges costing less to repair, then that shouldn't have affected me since I was in full campaign shells both before and after the "fix". If they just fixed it so enhancements were counted then why in the world do enhancements affect my repair rate more than everything else? Even if they also added in repair cost for augments, at the very most I should be at around a 10k repair cost.

I'm willing to eat a 5k repair cost due to silly mistakes new people make, but if you assume an ops group that tries to include new 50s will cause two or three wipes then my 'silly understandable mistake tax' has gone from 8-15k to 30-45k. That is my entire guild repair allowance for a week, and I use that allowance for progression (not that 50k will really help much anymore if I'm eating 15k per wipe).

Which means my choices are 1) do more dailies (not happening; I have other hobbies, work, and am in school. I already have trouble doing Black Hole once or twice a day) or 2) stop running with PuGs and showing newbies the ropes. I like helping people and I love gearing people up, but if the choice is them or fun then I'm going to go with fun.

This change won't hurt me; I have enough credits and I'm sure I'll get used to the price hike in a month or so. It will hurt the new 50s who find themselves kicked from groups because our patience with stupid wipes has deceased proportionally to the repair increase. Assuming they even get groups, since it's just safer to grab a group of guildies I know can faceroll the flashpoints than take a risk of PuGing someone in recruit gear who doesn't know the fights.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
02.16.2013 , 04:27 PM | #765
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Here's a different analogy for you:

would most people prefer to:

A) have costs lowered to the point at which they would only have to work only 1 hour a week to afford to do what they consider fun, and be able to spend more time doing the "fun" stuff

OR

B) have costs remain where they are and have to work 40 hours or more a week to be able to afford to do what they consider fun.


I thought so...cool.
didn't you just prove the other person's point?
do you realize that the whole point of industrial revolution and our constant race for improved technology is to reduce out workload while increasing rewards, right? practically everything we strive for is making our lives easier. its what drives the progress. we get education to get better jobs that will allow us to make more money in less hours.
there is NO inherent virtue in working harder for fewer rewards. its certainly not fun. there's nothing wrong with it, if that's what works for you, but its certainly NOT better or something to strive for.

there's this confusion again of tediousness vs challenge. its not the same thing you know. tedious is repeating the same simple task over and over. it requires a minimum of concentration and skill. grinding for credits for a lot of people is tedious. challenging is figuring out a tricky mechanic of a boss , learning to work as a team. challenge is killing a pvp opponent of equal or better skill/gear. challenge is good. tedium is bad.

DiabloPL's Avatar


DiabloPL
02.16.2013 , 04:36 PM | #766
I dont know about you but if im grouped with people under 19k dps/heal or under 22k tank im just exiting group and opening finder again. Im not going to fund someone learning process on ops or flashpoints with my money until someone will pay me 10k after each death.

Month ago i bought gtc 60 so got around one month left. You can check i wont pay single penny until this idiotic prices will go out.

FOnazi's Avatar


FOnazi
02.16.2013 , 04:38 PM | #767
Quote: Originally Posted by DiabloPL View Post
I dont know about you but if im grouped with people under 19k dps/heal or under 22k tank im just exiting group and opening finder again. Im not going to fund someone learning process on ops or flashpoints with my money.
Why do people place so much value on HP?
The Faded Legacy, Jedi Covenant
The Onazi Legacy, Begeron Colony

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
02.16.2013 , 04:40 PM | #768
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
didn't you just prove the other person's point?
do you realize that the whole point of industrial revolution and our constant race for improved technology is to reduce out workload while increasing rewards, right? practically everything we strive for is making our lives easier. its what drives the progress. we get education to get better jobs that will allow us to make more money in less hours.
there is NO inherent virtue in working harder for fewer rewards. its certainly not fun. there's nothing wrong with it, if that's what works for you, but its certainly NOT better or something to strive for.

there's this confusion again of tediousness vs challenge. its not the same thing you know. tedious is repeating the same simple task over and over. it requires a minimum of concentration and skill. grinding for credits for a lot of people is tedious. challenging is figuring out a tricky mechanic of a boss , learning to work as a team. challenge is killing a pvp opponent of equal or better skill/gear. challenge is good. tedium is bad.


I think we can agree that most people would prefer to do more of the "fun" stuff as opposed to working. However, the world, and MMO's do not work that way. Both require work, often tedious, boring work that provides no challenge, in order to be able to do the "fun" stuff.

Some people find leveling their 9th alt to be tedious and boring, since they have done all the quests previously, but they want to play that sniper in the endgame raids, so they buckle down and do the work to get that sniper to 50 and then gear him up. That's as much "work" for them as doing a few dailies one day to be able to afford to run that raid another day might be for someone else.

Before you say that the player leveling up his 9th alt has a definite goal, or purpose to work toward(having that new 50 to take to raids), so does anyone wanting to be able to afford the higher repair costs(being able to afford the higher repair costs).

DiabloPL's Avatar


DiabloPL
02.16.2013 , 04:42 PM | #769
Quote: Originally Posted by FOnazi View Post
Why do people place so much value on HP?
Because if dps got 18k hp or tank got 20k it means he got columi stuff without augments or wrong mods and that means he is new and most probably dont know much and will do stupid mistakes im not planning to fund. Sorry but i wont spend my private time on doing dailies just to spend it on repairs because of someone else mistakes.

mothear's Avatar


mothear
02.16.2013 , 04:43 PM | #770
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
snip .........
there's this confusion again of tediousness vs challenge. its not the same thing you know. tedious is repeating the same simple task over and over. it requires a minimum of concentration and skill. grinding FP's and OP's for a lot of people is tedious. challenging is figuring out a tricky mechanic of a boss for the first kill , learning to work as a team. challenge is killing a pvp opponent of equal or better skill/gear. challenge is good. tedium is bad.
Changed this for you. To me tedium is running the same FP's/OP's over and over again, one persons tedium does not equal everyone elses.