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I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

TheBBP's Avatar


TheBBP
02.16.2013 , 01:31 AM | #1
Back in the day when MMOs were still pretty new, I got into Everquest and it seemed amazing. The world was huge and had tons of places to explore. There were endless things to do. When you got to endgame, you actually felt powerful, like you had accomplished something. I would print out spell lists and maps and had them organized in a big folder super-geeky style. I took that game as srs bsns.

This thread is not to bag on SWToR or how to talk about how other games are better. I am here to ask you guys what you think is missing. I know that there are a lot of you who were blown away by Everquest or (insert your first big MMO here). What did they have that brought that sense of amazement?

Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?
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Co-Leader, The Way of the Maker - Family style Christian guild.

ConradLionhart's Avatar


ConradLionhart
02.16.2013 , 01:41 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
Back in the day when MMOs were still pretty new. I got into Everquest and it seemed amazing. The world was huge and had tons of places to explore. There were endless things to do. When you got to endgame, you actually felt powerful, like you had accomplished something. I would print out spell lists and maps and had them organized in a big folder super-geeky style. I took that game as srs bsns.

This thread is not to bag on SWToR or how to talk about how other games are better. I am here to ask you guys what you think is missing. I know that there are a lot of you who were blown away by Everquest or (insert your first big MMO here). What did they have that brought that sense of amazement?

Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?
I once felt like you do, but for WoW because WoW was my first MMO.

Yes I think it was because we were new and noobs that made it a great experience. We didn't know what to expect, we just accepted this MMO world for what it is. And it was this magical place that kept wowing you.

And no, I don't think we can ever go back to those days, because back then we were like children experiencing new things.
Now, we are grown up adults living in the adult world with consequences. We cannot see MMOs with a child's eyes anymore.

However, I am amazed that so far, no company can make an MMO that wows us like how it wowed us the first time.

Just because I was wowed by Baldur's Gate 2, doesn't mean I will never be wowed by another RPG.
I have recently been wowed by games like Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, Crusader Kings, even Faster Than Light.

Why is there no new MMO that can wow me the way other games have in other genres? Why is the MMO market so stagnant?
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gofortheko's Avatar


gofortheko
02.16.2013 , 01:44 AM | #3
I dont think you will ever capture the amazement you had for everquest in any new or future mmo. Simply put it was the first 3d mmo in the history of mmos, and most peoples first of the genre they played. It had things that people remember fondly, but lets be real at the time was annoying, like boat rides, and corpse runs etc. For me no other game outside of DAOC will ever give me that feeling.

DAOC was the next in line, and while it still wasnt as exciting to play as the first time I played everquest it was a close second. I loved DAOC because it was gritty (played midgard mainly) and had so many classes and races and realms to play. But anyway back on topic, I dont think there is anything any game company can do now to ever fill someone of our generations mmo excitement anymore (short of maybe a virtual mmo).

I know myself I have played pretty much every mmo under the sun, but msot games are just rehashes with different looks to me. SWTOR grabs me because of its theme, if it wasnt star wars i highly doubt I would still be playing.
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TheBBP's Avatar


TheBBP
02.16.2013 , 02:03 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by ConradLionhart View Post
I once felt like you do, but for WoW because WoW was my first MMO.

Yes I think it was because we were new and noobs that made it a great experience. We didn't know what to expect, we just accepted this MMO world for what it is. And it was this magical place that kept wowing you.

And no, I don't think we can ever go back to those days, because back then we were like children experiencing new things.
Now, we are grown up adults living in the adult world with consequences. We cannot see MMOs with a child's eyes anymore.

However, I am amazed that so far, no company can make an MMO that wows us like how it wowed us the first time.

Just because I was wowed by Baldur's Gate 2, doesn't mean I will never be wowed by another RPG.
I have recently been wowed by games like Assassin's Creed, Dead Space, Crusader Kings, even Faster Than Light.

Why is there no new MMO that can wow me the way other games have in other genres? Why is the MMO market so stagnant?
Quote: Originally Posted by gofortheko View Post
I dont think you will ever capture the amazement you had for everquest in any new or future mmo. Simply put it was the first 3d mmo in the history of mmos, and most peoples first of the genre they played. It had things that people remember fondly, but lets be real at the time was annoying, like boat rides, and corpse runs etc. For me no other game outside of DAOC will ever give me that feeling.

DAOC was the next in line, and while it still wasnt as exciting to play as the first time I played everquest it was a close second. I loved DAOC because it was gritty (played midgard mainly) and had so many classes and races and realms to play. But anyway back on topic, I dont think there is anything any game company can do now to ever fill someone of our generations mmo excitement anymore (short of maybe a virtual mmo).

I know myself I have played pretty much every mmo under the sun, but msot games are just rehashes with different looks to me. SWTOR grabs me because of its theme, if it wasnt star wars i highly doubt I would still be playing.
Sadly, I think that you are both right. It was incredible because it was new to us. I look back fondly on things like the boat rides. It made the world seem more alive to me. I think that MMOs are a tricky business. Especially Star Wars MMOs. Star Wars fans are already quite finicky.

Single-player experiences are another story. There are still games that dazzle me. I have been following Star Citizen (a quasi-MMO). They are building something pretty innovative there. I wish that there was more of a courage to innovate in the MMO space.

I know that SWTOR or any other MMO won't likely give me that feeling, but things might feel a lot more grand if there was a bit more sandbox to go with our themepark.
Master No'ja Vace -The Ebon Hawk Server
Co-Leader, The Way of the Maker - Family style Christian guild.

Harleyquincey's Avatar


Harleyquincey
02.16.2013 , 02:13 AM | #5
A wonderful thread if you ask me. This is something I have spent a lot of time thinking about some years ago. For me it all began with my first MMO which was good old Ultima Online and I played that for straight 10 years (sounds weirder now that I wrote it than it felt). That alone might tell you how much it amazed me and stunned me for many years - but as any MMO even this amazement has faded, without switching the game. So it cannot have something to do with that or with a specific game "missing" things, at least not from my perspective since I never switched it and the feeling still disappeared. One might ponder if it was all because I was so used to it - but that was not the case either, since after those 10 years I did switch a lot and was in many many betas (Everquest 2 among them btw) - but none has stunned me or had an equally charming appeal to me. Partially that was because I was not willing to sacrifice the huge amount of roleplay we had going in UO, part of that certainly can never be explained properly and some parts of it I have discovered after pondering, I think.

What really makes a game shine and stand out, amaze you and drag you in - I for one had a good amount of that reappearing when I began to play SW:TOR with my spouse. That amazed me and I pondered and thought about why it happened here but didn't happen in EQ2, in Eve Online, in DaOC, in Neocron 2 or any other MMO since Ultima Online. Then I started to compare those and eventhough SW:TOR is much much different from UO it does have certain core features that link both, and first of all that is: having an interesting lore and universe. I remember that back in UO I used to frequent a website about it and even printed out the lore stuff from there as well as some newbie guides - and I found myself archiving lots of lore content and spending many many hours on Wookieepedia when I began with SW:TOR because I was sincerely interested in the lore (I always had a soft spot for the original SW movies but I never was a die hard fan... until sw:tor).

A second link certainly is the feeling of being part of something glorious, something very new and shining - as for example sw:tors countless cut-scenes and dialogues that never fail to amaze me, right now I am deeply in love with the designs for the Grey Secant (Tron, anyone?) and this feeling has not faded ever since, I still consider sw:tor to be the top of the list when it comes to quest narration and I can understand why a MMO does not offer tons of different solutions to quests (it would be an insane workload) - rather than wasting my energy on lamenting about that, I do enjoy the hilarious one-liners for example my Bounty Hunter drops ("I maybe negotiated with his face a little."). That one even made it into Real-Life communication with friends and guildmates here.

Third comes the last link I have discovered that might have something to do with the affect - and that is the game's level of thought. To explain what I mean with this - I do mean the way things are designed and the reason behind that. See.. as I have been in many betas, many MMOs and such I did see tons of bad decisions. When I began SW:TOR I was repeatedly being heard saying things like "Wow, they thought about that? That's quite amazing" and "So.. they blocked this since it could lead to that exploit? Cool thing" - and that is just part of what I thought. Sure, there were and still are bugs in SW:TOR but I dont know any MMO without bugs, nor do I think I ever will. The reason why this amazes me and makes me happy and feel "magic" is because of the way the Devs approach the community - they do it on par but they also do NOT feed the trolls, they don't say "Oh sure we will quickly do as you asked us to do! Sorry, dear customer! Will be fixed right now!" but instead they evaluate community reports as much as their own data. Trust me, fellow readers, that is so incredibly rare and brave that it amazes me. It is the same reason why the Ultima Online community never had many problems with whinery and players "demanding" things in the long run - because they knew that was pointless. Solutions were found where they were needed and if someone was being ganked all day long and robbed clean of all items (that was possible in UO) ...then it was his bad personal luck and his fault for carrying around all the valueables he had. No use to complain. That is essentially how it is here and I really appreciate this. The absolutely worst community-to-staff communication I have ever ever ever witnessed was in "Champions Online" - the staff made hotfixes over hotfixes so much that the expression Flavor of the Month was reduced to Flavor of the Patch, as in classes being completely revamped every few weeks, their skills being changed drastically every few weeks and all of that just due to whining in forums.

All of this is parts of the reasons why SW:TOR still amazes me and keeps me hooked. Yes, the magic of the first half year has faded - but now I enjoy the harder content more and more and I take my time about it, as does my guild. We like things close-knit, familiar, on our own pace. That does keep the magic alive on quite some weekends and I dare say that this is also our own achievement and also our own burden. We try to make things special, try to really stand out together in the way we communicate with each other and try to achieve a shared-consciousness level tactical understanding of each another.

Sorry for the very long post but it really was needed to vent this here along with my thoughts on the various reasons for what might lack - and that is "Not much" since the main thing that lacks imho is for people to get together and do outstanding stuff together. Just wait until the first musicians among us create sw:tor songs (Midas, I miss you)
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Emmcee's Avatar


Emmcee
02.16.2013 , 02:23 AM | #6
Se la vie ...once you do something for the 1st time, you can never do it again for the 1st time.

I often think about and miss pre-Trammel Ultima Online and pre-Planes of Power Everquest.

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
02.16.2013 , 02:31 AM | #7
I do remember the WOW factor with Ever Quest I remember making my first character a Troll. I remember walking round the (what would now be called crappy) starting village and the first couple of quests before being sent out to explore alone. I remember meeting other trolls and going off to camp bandits. All great I remember finally getting enough XP to go farther out. However in todays market that would be laughed at people would quit because it took too long to level, there was too little to do and it forced grouping.

I seem to think I did get the feeling for TOR when I first played open beta but like all things once you have played for a few weeks the WOW factor dies down and the bugs start to be noticed

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Redfoot_
02.16.2013 , 02:38 AM | #8
MMOs these days are basically solo games with grouping tagged on, an afterthought if you will. Until the game designers overcome this hurdle we will not see another Everquest or the like.

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DarthLeeloo
02.16.2013 , 03:12 AM | #9
Mine's Final Fantasy XI which has some similarities to EQ. It was part of that generation of mmos. Definitely a steep learning curve for someone like me who was brand new to mmos. I thought "Online Final Fantasy?! I must try this!" Having no clue what I was getting myself into.

The "wow" factor you guys are mentioning was notched up a few levels for me with that game. Not only getting my 1st taste of an mmo, but an mmo based on one of my favorite game series ever. That adds to the sentiment that no modern mmo could ever compare.

Though some of what made it amazing includes hardcore elements I'd probably not want to revisit nowadays. I actually don't mind the laid back, casual mmos now. However, I'll never take them as seriously because of it. The sense of accomplishment isn't there. They're not serious business to me.

What modern games could try to match is the vast, beautiful game world I can get lost in. Full of amazing sights, sounds & activities to pass the time. A place I love logging into even when I don't have a quest objective to take care of. I just want to be in that world doing something. That's often cited as a major complaint here with SWTOR. To me it leaves a lot to be desired in that department.

OwenBrooks's Avatar


OwenBrooks
02.16.2013 , 03:16 AM | #10
I am just going to say " City Of Heroes " RIP , I played for 8 years and would be still there if NcSoft hadn't decided to close down the servers.