Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kaggath Tournament - Revan vs Xizor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Revan vs Xizor

SevenFC's Avatar


SevenFC
02.15.2013 , 07:29 AM | #131
From what I've seen people seem to think Revan has a better chance of being assassinated than xizor. Whether you like Revan or not he is still Revan. Ya know, the one who killed the dark lord malak, mandalore, and killed a dark council member with no battle whatsoever? Whether Revan has 1 ship or 1000 ships, each ship will be full of droids, sith, star fighters, and alike.
Revan is a MASTERA tactition. Petty assassinations and hit and runs wont kill him. It would take something much more devious and well thought out besides saying a droid could take him.
Aballam/Cypher
Pot5 or wherever
<WE ARE FARMERS>

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.15.2013 , 07:36 AM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by SevenFC View Post
From what I've seen people seem to think Revan has a better chance of being assassinated than xizor. Whether you like Revan or not he is still Revan. Ya know, the one who killed the dark lord malak, mandalore, and killed a dark council member with no battle whatsoever? Whether Revan has 1 ship or 1000 ships, each ship will be full of droids, sith, star fighters, and alike.

Revan is a MASTER tactition. Petty assassinations and hit and runs wont kill him. It would take something much more devious and well thought out besides saying a droid could take him.
I agree.

Assassins will not kill Revan 1v1. Obviously.

But you misunderstand the argument. Revan could not survive an explosion. The assassins could blow up his ship, without even confronting him. Such as:

a. Self-destruct (hacking)
b. Reactor Core rupture
c. Engine over-heat
d. Bridge destruction
e. Suicide ram
f. Standard Bomb-planting

To name a few. Any self-respecting Star Wars assassin could do this. Or they could pull a Zam Wesel and try to kill him with bugs. This will not come down to a 1v1. Revan will be killed by explosion. Whether that is caused by assassins or an onslaught from Xizor's heavily-equipped fleets.

EDIT: For any who watch Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Ziro the Hutt was part of the Black Sun. So if you're looking for assassins/ a strike team, something similar to the team that freed Ziro from the Republic prison would probably be assembled to kill Revan.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

SevenFC's Avatar


SevenFC
02.15.2013 , 07:58 AM | #133
He could always use an escape pod if over a planet. In my personal opinion if someone tried to board revans ship and blow it up from the inside that individual would be dealt with accordingly. Without the Jedi and the republic to interfere what's stopping Revan from attacking coruscant? The black sun don't compare very well to a bunch of sith.
I would think suicide bombing wouldn't be s viable tactic. It's hard to say Revan would expect suicide bombings but revans ship would most likely be guarded by other ships.

It almost (to me) seems to boil down to luck. If the suicide bombings/ambush fails Xizor would be done


EDIT: Were also comparing two people 3000 years or more apart. Obviously Xizors tech
is going to be very very advanced compared to revans.
Aballam/Cypher
Pot5 or wherever
<WE ARE FARMERS>

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
02.15.2013 , 12:20 PM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I am not suggesting Xizor's assassins confront him. Battling Revan = no-no. But blowing up his ship and/or sabotauging the systems for an easy death in space battle is another matter entirely.
How exactly would they get on his ships? Bribing a guy that is fanatically loyal to someone is rather unlikely...


Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Since when do IG series droids "run around"? They are skilled assassin droids, they will have no problem employing Xizor's tech and intel to find Revan's ship.
IG series droids aren't exactly subtle, that's my point, not denying they would have no trouble locating Revan, their problem is they are less subtle than a bunch of rampaging HK-50 droids.

Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Okay, on this HK argument.
1.) Where does he get these parts? The Black Market? Good luck, the Black Sun kinda controls that.
2.) So..... instead of leading an army, Revan sits in his room all day building a droid?
3.) It would be a prototype with no combat experience.
How did he build HK-47 then? Seriously, Revan could simply build another HK droid as a hobby of his on the side, he found time to put together HK-47, and HK-47 wasn't exactly a novice in combat... We're talking about a droid here, Black Sun may control a lot, but they don't control everything, and I suspect that the HK series actually used military equipment components for the most part, cause HK-47 was supposedly constructed while Revan was leading a military force, he wouldn't have been able to hunt down underworld components to construct HK-47.

Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Xizor doesn't need to win a war. He needs to win a battle. By throwing all his forces at Revan's flagship with a gravity well to seal the deal, this debate comes down to one battle. And tactics won't save Revan from the wrath of the underworld. They have tactics of their own: hit-and-run, ambushing, etc.
One of Xizor's prize "admirals" had trouble against 2 freighters and 12 X-Wings, even with the fact they were facing Rogue Squadron, there is no excuse for having that much trouble even before the Imperials joined in the fray.

Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I'm pretty sure loyalty doesn't protect people from assassins...
Depends, the assassins Xizor would be hiring would generally be in it for the money, to be blunt you don't get paid if you're dead. So there are risks these assassins would not take, that a fanatic would take, and thus Xizor's assassins might not be as dangerous as many assassins that Revan already had to face.

Translations: Xizor's assassins would not resort to suicide tactics, because they wouldn't collect their money if they died, they wouldn't be willing to lose their life in an attempt to take out their target.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.15.2013 , 01:17 PM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
1.) Lock-down on Lehon
Makes no sense to the character. Revan would never do this. He's too strong, too driven, and too much of a figurehead to retreat. The last time he was in a war, was he hiding? No, he was on the front lines. Commanding from his flagship, not from some meditation chamber. He didn't hide from Jedi, there's no way he's hiding from criminals. Arguments that don't make sense to the character would never happen, and so shouldn't be evaluated.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so quickly. Yes Revan fights on the front lines but in this situation there are no 'front lines'. Xizor can only muster a large enough fleet to wage a shadow war, and any open tactics will be hit and run, too fast for Revan to react personally. Most of his fleet will be stationary, and Revan can't zip about from one side of the galaxy to another dealing personally with everyone of Xizor's strikes, especially seeing as Xizor is trying to assassinate him.

However as Lehon is in the Unknown Regions Revan would not be able to respond rapidly to any matters that needed his attention and communications would be difficult. So if anything it will be a last resort. But still a possibility. Its the first place Revan will go if he escapes a failed assassination attempt. Lets also remember that Revan is cold and calculating, and a celebrated tactician. He can put aside his 'strong and driven' persona for the sake of practicality and survival.

However because he is not waging full scale war, and because he needs to keep in contact and command of his forces, he very well may simply station a large fleet above Korriban and command his forces from there. Or from another stronghold - which would make it very difficult for Xizor to permeate. And given the 'low-key' status of the war, little if any resupplying and refueling will be carried out. We also have to consider that Revan will realise he is being boarded no matter how they infiltrate the ship (especially if they cut through his hull) and will respond accordingly. First step: get off the ship, second step: defend the engines etc. from sabotage. We have the remember the flagship will be swarming with Sith assassins, dark Jedi, Sith troopers, battle droids etc.

And concerning Revan's flagship, we can assume it had the same specs as the Leviathan which was an upgraded version of the Interdictor. So lets just say 75% of an Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer.

However concerning Xizor. No one has put forward a powerful argument as to how Revan will kill him/track him down. If he escapes Coruscant this could become very difficult.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
02.15.2013 , 02:01 PM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
However concerning Xizor. No one has put forward a powerful argument as to how Revan will kill him/track him down. If he escapes Coruscant this could become very difficult.
All Revan would have to do is hire a very good data slicer and accountant, remember Vader managed to backtrace Xizor's little scheme all the way back to Xizor, despite all the front companies and dummy accounts. Xizor doesn't have the slicing skill that G0-T0 does, Revan would have a much easier time tracking down Xizor than he ever would trying to track down "Goto."

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.15.2013 , 02:03 PM | #137
I move to vote, that we stop assuming things cause otherwise it gets into one huge mess. I mean how do we know that Revan's flagship has the same specs as the Leviathan which was one of a kind? We don't, for all we know it could have just been a regular Interdictor cruiser...I mean just because its a leader here doesn't mean that his ship was personally modified or anything.

Quote:
All Revan would have to do is hire a very good data slicer and accountant, remember Vader managed to backtrace Xizor's little scheme all the way back to Xizor, despite all the front companies and dummy accounts. Xizor doesn't have the slicing skill that G0-T0 does, Revan would have a much easier time tracking down Xizor than he ever would trying to track down "Goto."
Where was this stated?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.15.2013 , 02:08 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
However concerning Xizor. No one has put forward a powerful argument as to how Revan will kill him/track him down. If he escapes Coruscant this could become very difficult.
There is a way, but it has a slim chance of working.

I'm thinking Xizor flees Coruscant right away for the safety of one of his hidden bases (Mustafar?). Revan can locate this base, given the right circumstances. He needs to find a member of the Black Sun and use Drain Knowledge on him/her. Revan did this on Lehon to learn the Rakatan language and drive basic into their skulls (Kreia did Drain Knowledge to Atton on Telos). However, the question is, does every member of Black Sun know about the Mustafar base?

So he needs to track down a Black Sun member, use Drain Knowledge, and, on the chance of said member knowing the location of Xizor's base, bring his entire fleet to Mustafar and destroy it along with Xizor.

However, Xizor is not going to be standing around. Leaving his known base of Coruscant gives him (roughly) a week of prep time. During this time he can move agents into Revan's forces. Sneak members of Black Sun into Revan's shipyards to steal or destroy whatever ships are docked there (perhaps send mole-miners like Thrawn did?). Xizor can use this strategy to decimate Revan's "dormant" forces.

He can also move bio weapons into Revan's outposts and bases, killing Revan's organic forces. The only thing Xizor has to really worry about is the Dark Jedi. But really, how many of them know Breath Control?

On the topic of sabotaging Revan's flagship. This can be done. It is not impenetrable, especially for someone like Xizor. First thing he needs to do is get a team of IG-86 droids, give them the best tech and weapons money can buy, and equip them with cloaking fields. Then he needs to get Revan's personal fleet into an engagement. Not too difficult, all he needs is a gravity well generator and his intel network. Send the IG's to Revan's flagship onboard a cloaked shuttle, and let them work.

From here, Xizor has quite a few options. He can have them deploy a bioweapon, or simply destroy the main reactor. They would also sabotage the escape pods and any remaining shuttles to prevent any escape. Either way, it would be over for Revan.

That's how I see it, at least. Xizor has alot of tools that Revan has to deal with. He's facing an enemy with unlimited credits, a galactic intel network, and unlimited access to illegal tech.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
02.15.2013 , 02:09 PM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Where was this stated?
Vader hired a slicer to track down who was trying to kill Luke Skywalker in Shadows of the Empire, and not only backtraced it to Xizor, but also discovered the motive behind it.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.15.2013 , 02:14 PM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Vader hired a slicer to track down who was trying to kill Luke Skywalker in Shadows of the Empire, and not only backtraced it to Xizor, but also discovered the motive behind it.
Can you give a quote or evidence of this? Cause I don't remember anything, of Vader doing as such. Xizor made sure that all of his involvement with the plan weren't traced back to him. His only foul up was uttering Luke's name when him and co were trying to escape Courscant, and being its at Courscant, the Empire picked up the transmission and Vader with the Executor arrived. Vader only suspected Xizor of trying to kill Luke, which worked in his favor cause he did.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.