Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kaggath Tournament - Revan vs Xizor

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Revan vs Xizor

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
02.11.2013 , 06:53 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
HK-47 was the model of the droid, not the number. No one ever created the parts or manufactured an "HK-48", HK-50's were the next model after HK-47, not an HK-48.
The point I was making is what's to stop Revan from making a new highly proficient assassin droid...

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.11.2013 , 07:17 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
The point I was making is what's to stop Revan from making a new highly proficient assassin droid...
Because there is no specifics/information that is canon on the droid. Could Revan make another assassin droid? Yes, would it be allowed for this? No, reason being...its pretty much a blank chassis and you'd be able to throw in whatever to make sure the assassin droid is the best thing ever.

Without actual canon information, its just not gonna fly here.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
02.11.2013 , 07:36 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Because there is no specifics/information that is canon on the droid. Could Revan make another assassin droid? Yes, would it be allowed for this? No, reason being...its pretty much a blank chassis and you'd be able to throw in whatever to make sure the assassin droid is the best thing ever.

Without actual canon information, its just not gonna fly here.
Just use similar specifications as HK-47 or an HK-50...

In any event, if Revan can force Xizor into having to play this as a military campaign, Revan will win.

If Xizor can force this into an underworld style situation, he has the advantage.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.13.2013 , 09:18 PM | #124
I really want to write a scenario for this, but I'm too lazy at the moment. Keep it open for a day and I'll have one or two, promise.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.13.2013 , 09:30 PM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Just use similar specifications as HK-47 or an HK-50...

In any event, if Revan can force Xizor into having to play this as a military campaign, Revan will win.

If Xizor can force this into an underworld style situation, he has the advantage.
Then he might just wanna go with an HK-50, there is literally no difference between HK-47 and HK-50. The only notable difference between the two units, is that 47 has a different personality and a long history, and HK-50 having a different armor color scheme....aside from that fact, I haven't seen anything that shows them being different...in terms of being an assassin droid and killing their targets, even if there is a difference between 47 and 50 its probably not that big of a gap.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.14.2013 , 11:19 AM | #126
OK I think I'll release the finals pretty soon, but before I wrap this debate up I'd ask you to consider this, the whole debate pretty much hinges on the below...
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But concerning this debate, seems to be a lot of points for Xizor and the general consensus seems 'death by assassination/sabotage etc'. But I think we need some more definitive points for Xizor taking out Revan. I mean assassinating him is all well and good, but Revan is a Sith Lord and he is aware that Xizor - being a crime lord - is not going to attempt to destroy him via one-on-one combat or in a large scale duel. He will expect assassination, sabotage etc etc. because that's how crime lords work. To ward against such a threat he will likely do one of the following: lock down his vessel, no-one goes in or out without his permission or retreat to the Temple of the Ancients on Lehon, which is something of a natural fortress not to mention a hidden one. In both situations it suddenly becomes incredibly difficult for Xizor to kill Revan.

What's more Revan may very well anticipate evasive and underhanded tactics from the 'Prince of Crime' and so will be wary of charging straight into Coruscant - infact now I think about it its a pretty dumb tactic anyway - only to have Xizor flee. Instead he will likely send assassins to scout the area, if Xizor is there they've got a pretty good chance of killing him. But if Xizor has retreated already (more likely scenario) they will find nothing and report back to Revan. Which means Xizor's decoy will fail (did I just argue with myself there?) That's all I've got for now. I leave you guys to come up for counter points for Xizor and Revan supporters to come up for a death scenario for Xizor...

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.14.2013 , 12:13 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
[COLOR=#CC9E42]OK I think I'll release the finals pretty soon, but before I wrap this debate up I'd ask you to consider this, the whole debate pretty much hinges on the below...
I wouldn't wrap things up so soon. Warren is working on a few scenarios, as am I.

And besides, most of this thread has been discussing the specifications of ships. We haven't done much scenario-wise.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.14.2013 , 05:33 PM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

Revan will expect assassination, sabotage etc etc. because that's how crime lords work. To ward against such a threat he will likely do one of the following: lock down his vessel, no-one goes in or out without his permission or retreat to the Temple of the Ancients on Lehon, which is something of a natural fortress not to mention a hidden one. In both situations it suddenly becomes incredibly difficult for Xizor to kill Revan.
So you present two defenses here. Gonna start with the easiest first.

1.) Lock-down on Lehon
Makes no sense to the character. Revan would never do this. He's too strong, too driven, and too much of a figurehead to retreat. The last time he was in a war, was he hiding? No, he was on the front lines. Commanding from his flagship, not from some meditation chamber. He didn't hide from Jedi, there's no way he's hiding from criminals. Arguments that don't make sense to the character would never happen, and so shouldn't be evaluated.

2.) Lock-down of "his vessel"
A couple refutations:

a. What is "his vessel"?
Ambushing Revan's fleet is a major option for Xizor. If, as you say later in this post, Revan does not attack Coruscant, that means Xizor has his navy at the ready. Not to mention he will quickly be able to gather forces and underworld tech and employ his info network. Xizor could use a gravity well + his fleet + thousands of Black Sun forces + info network to strike at Revan's core fleet at its weakest. And Revan's ship, no matter how locked down it is, can't withstand the firepower of mass-drivers, torpedoes, etc. For sure if it's a standard-class battleship. And seeing as all they have to do is kill Revan, they could focus solely on his ship, all they have to do is kill it and they win. And Xizor would be across the galaxy, out of harm's way and still gathering forces in case it fails. BOOM Scenario.

b. Lock-down? Psh.
I was under the impression that ALL war ships were locked down during like.... war. But Star Wars assassins are something else. There are other ways to get into a ship than through the airlock. Using the info network to locate Revan's fleet, and stealth tech to get them there, IG-86's and/or other assassins could easily make a space jump to the hull. Revan's ship will have to stop to refuel, resupply, and reevaluate, so there will be plenty of oppertunity, more so as time drags on. It would be simple to either 1.) cut into the hull/break a window (Bridge?) and storm the ship, 2.) go for the engines/auto-destruct, or 3.) attack the engines themselves via spacejump without even setting foot inside. BOOM Scenario.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Instead he will likely send assassins to scout the area, if Xizor is there they've got a pretty good chance of killing him. But if Xizor has retreated already (more likely scenario) they will find nothing and report back to Revan. Which means Xizor's decoy will fail (did I just argue with myself there?) That's all I've got for now. I leave you guys to come up for counter points for Xizor and Revan supporters to come up for a death scenario for Xizor...
Yes, Xizor will desert the place as soon as it starts.

And this scenario (discovering the decoy) only gives Xizor his fleet at full power and lots more time. So if this truely is how it would happen, it only helps the Dark Prince.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
02.14.2013 , 11:40 PM | #129
How many assassination attempts did Revan contend with over the course of his lifetime again...

Remember, Revan probably would have clobbered the Jedi Strike team if not for Malek, since Malek is not in play, people need to remember that Revan's underlings were for the most part fanatically loyal to Revan.

Getting an Assassin close to Revan will be rather hard to do, even with him not trying to keep a low profile, much less an assassin droid like IG-86, and if we have an IG-86 running around, then Revan could probably build himself an new Assassin Droid to replace HK-47, and quite frankly in some ways HK-47 (and if Revan built a successor) was more devious than the IG series droids.

If this turns into a military vs. military campaign then Revan wins; Xizor is a devious underworld mastermind, he is not a military tactician, he isn't good at commanding fleets, but Revan is.

Xizor led by fear and greed; Revan led mostly by loyalty, some of Revan's followers were fanatically loyal to him (which is why Malek was trying to keep news of Revan being alive from becoming public knowledge).

The situation boils down to how long can Xizor dodge Revan versus. how long Revan can dodge the assassins. Considering the loyalty of Revan's forces, I'd say it will take a very long time in order for an assassin to get lucky. Xizor's assassins are good, but Revan supposedly took down Mandalore and knew quite a bit about assassinations, which means he wouldn't be an easy target.


The key flaw for Xizor is arrogance, he might underestimate Revan, but then again in all honesty he might not. I actually think these two individuals could be fairly evenly matched.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
02.15.2013 , 06:49 AM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
How many assassination attempts did Revan contend with over the course of his lifetime again...

Remember, Revan probably would have clobbered the Jedi Strike team if not for Malek, since Malek is not in play, people need to remember that Revan's underlings were for the most part fanatically loyal to Revan.
I am not suggesting Xizor's assassins confront him. Battling Revan = no-no. But blowing up his ship and/or sabotauging the systems for an easy death in space battle is another matter entirely.

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Getting an Assassin close to Revan will be rather hard to do, even with him not trying to keep a low profile, much less an assassin droid like IG-86, and if we have an IG-86 running around, then Revan could probably build himself an new Assassin Droid to replace HK-47, and quite frankly in some ways HK-47 (and if Revan built a successor) was more devious than the IG series droids.
Since when do IG series droids "run around"? They are skilled assassin droids, they will have no problem employing Xizor's tech and intel to find Revan's ship.

Okay, on this HK argument.
1.) Where does he get these parts? The Black Market? Good luck, the Black Sun kinda controls that.
2.) So..... instead of leading an army, Revan sits in his room all day building a droid?
3.) It would be a prototype with no combat experience.

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
If this turns into a military vs. military campaign then Revan wins; Xizor is a devious underworld mastermind, he is not a military tactician, he isn't good at commanding fleets, but Revan is.

Xizor led by fear and greed; Revan led mostly by loyalty, some of Revan's followers were fanatically loyal to him (which is why Malek was trying to keep news of Revan being alive from becoming public knowledge).

The situation boils down to how long can Xizor dodge Revan versus. how long Revan can dodge the assassins. Considering the loyalty of Revan's forces, I'd say it will take a very long time in order for an assassin to get lucky. Xizor's assassins are good, but Revan supposedly took down Mandalore and knew quite a bit about assassinations, which means he wouldn't be an easy target.
Xizor doesn't need to win a war. He needs to win a battle. By throwing all his forces at Revan's flagship with a gravity well to seal the deal, this debate comes down to one battle. And tactics won't save Revan from the wrath of the underworld. They have tactics of their own: hit-and-run, ambushing, etc.

I'm pretty sure loyalty doesn't protect people from assassins...
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?