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A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
02.14.2013 , 12:58 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
You don't get it. This is not about levelling and not having to use the GTN for that. This is about crafting while levelling and not getting the items you need for crafting in a reasonable amount to effectively use your crew skill. One example, i needed Titanium for mods, but my Underworld Metal crew skill would only offer me one mission to gather that. You can't skill under these circumstances, unless you wait till lv50. Which would be nonsense. There are ways to not have to use the GTN, but in what way was making the best of your skills while you level actually such a hassle? Either wait two weeks until you've gathered the stuff you need or pay too much on the GTN? Where's the fun in that?
The fact remains that while you feel justified and prudent in your use of the GTN, If you had not spent credits on the GTN, all those credits you spent would be available to use for repairs. To complain that you have only seen a 30K increase in 25 levels so the repair costs are excessive holds no credence for me, when by your own admission you spent credits on the GTN. I myself have never had less than 1 million on any toon when it hit 50. This after buying all skills and leveling all crew skills. Most have had closer to 1.5 million.

Rehtiz's Avatar


Rehtiz
02.14.2013 , 01:01 PM | #72
Not read all the thread but from what I have read some people say I want to refute.

My gear on my sage is black hole, campaign and dreadguard. I have never changed any mods over, I brought the item and then equiped it. Only change is adding an augment slot.

My repair cost is now 11380 per death, before the patch it was lower, low enough that I did not really notice (probably about 5k).

The so-called bug fix should not have affected me at all, my gear is straight from the vendor. Yet my repair costs have shot up.

2 evenings on 10 stacks dreadtooth (got it down last night) has meant quite a hefty repair bill, probably around 300k, an amout a casual player like me who hates dailies can't afford for too long. I'm not pugging any content now on any of my 50's, just can't afford to help people learn ops.
If you have to use insults to win an argument, you have lost the argument already.

Elfindreams's Avatar


Elfindreams
02.14.2013 , 01:02 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Prove me wrong. Other than that, this is off-topic.
You can easily level based only on gear you get from rewards.

You can easily level crafting skill based only on the materials you gather in the field, you don't need the blue/purple craftable items to level crafting skills. You don't need blue/purple craftable items while leveling.

So "needed" costs are:
Skills.
Crafting Schematics.
Repair costs.
Speeder. *cheap on the GTN right now so might as well use the GTN once*

Now to offset those costs, usually when I level a new character (I have 8 level 50s currently working on my 9th) what I do is give them a crafting skill, the corresponding gathering skill (even if I will later change this at level 50) and slicing (even if I will later change this at 50).

Slicing more than gives enough credits to buy crafting schematics and skills on its own if you just stop periodically to RE boxes.

Mission rewards more than pay for even the newly jacked repair costs.

The resulting 1+mil I get at the end of a level 50 character run, I feed into legacy unlocks for the next one as well as switching any crafting skills if desired.

NOW that being said.

If you remove the speeder cost (one time, cheap purchase for an adaptable form the GTN (probably less than 30k), Jacking one third of the costs associated with leveling is a bit drastic of a "bug fix" regardless of everything else.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jinxblog View Post
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Are you apart of a progression guild? No? Then please do not speak for us.

Have I been speaking for the casual guilds? No.
Have I said that the "new" repair costs will not affect them? No.

I have only been speaking about my progression guild and other progression guilds on my server ( we communicate frequently and actually have members who are within multiple progression guilds).


As a progression raider, I do worry about costs as we do not do what you do and have the guild fund it all. We all fund our own costs and reap or own rewards (we roll for crystals for example). We do pool molecular stabalizers but we then distribute them among the raiders when requested for gear, we don't use them to create gear and GTN them.

So to turn around your admonition, don't claim to speak for all progression guilds. We all do things differently.

Now that being said, this is not going to keep me from throwing myself week after week against NM EC or against any new content that comes out. It will however mean instead of raiding most nights, I will have to spend time grinding. Time that I would rather be running alts through ops and teaching others to do ops/etc.

I will do it, but frankly grinding is a stupid concept that needs to exist less in these games, not more. Make the content difficult and interesting enough and people will run it regardless. Making it "necessary" through an artificial grind mechanic is just lazy level design. Remember the game's purpose is to have fun... do people have fun with progression raiding or pvping or... any number of difficult things they may not succeed at at first and may take considerable time to do... yes.

I don't think I know anyone who finds mindless grinding for credits fun.
The Jade Legacy Ebon Hawk
[Nova Imperium] [The Crescent Order]

Daemonson's Avatar


Daemonson
02.14.2013 , 01:04 PM | #74
Found this in the 1.2 patch notes:
Modifiable items now have repair costs based on the level of their base modification.

So according to this, ever since 1.2 modable items have been taking into account the level of mods in repairs. This means that in absolutely no way should a low level item with high level mods have cost less to repair than a high level item with the same mods.

In the 1.7 patch notes:
Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.

If I read this correctly, then the repair costs didn't take into account the enhancements in the gear and ONLY the enhancements. Enhancements are 1/3 of most moddable pieces so lets do some math.

Say pre-1.7 you wiped and got a 4k repair bill for a single wipe. About half your gear doesn't use enhancements anyway, so take off half of that and include only repair for moddable gear with enhancements. This leaves 2k. Now say that it is only taking into account armorings and mods so that is 1k per mod. Now by this logic enhancements should have an equal value when calculating repair costs as they are 1/3 of the stats. This would mean that adding the enhancement should bring the price of it up about 1k.

By this math the total repair cost would be about 5k. It is instead 10k.

This would mean that the enhancements would bring prices up about 6k, making it 6x any other item in the gear. This is some fairly basic math here, and nothing really makes sense.

Also, according to the notes the sell values of items should go up too, I checked and they didn't. Item sell values are about the same.

Elfindreams's Avatar


Elfindreams
02.14.2013 , 01:08 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
You don't get it. This is not about levelling and not having to use the GTN for that. This is about crafting while levelling and not getting the items you need for crafting in a reasonable amount to effectively use your crew skill. One example, i needed Titanium for mods, but my Underworld Metal crew skill would only offer me one mission to gather that. You can't skill under these circumstances, unless you wait till lv50. Which would be nonsense. There are ways to not have to use the GTN, but in what way was making the best of your skills while you level actually such a hassle? Either wait two weeks until you've gathered the stuff you need or pay too much on the GTN? Where's the fun in that?
You don't get it.... you can level all crafting skills to 400 without using a single blue material. You don't need underworld metal to level crafting. From saying mods, it sounds like you are leveling a cybertech. While leveling cybertech, make green level mods/armorings and you don't need any underworld metal materials.

Buy your mods/enahancements from the planetary reward vendors with commendations, get them from rewards or use the greens. There is no content in this game that needs the blues or purples while leveling if you do all the quests. If you skip everything and just do the class quests and are a level or two behind the world ... yes you will have problems... but that is a state you put yourself in, it is by no means necessary.
The Jade Legacy Ebon Hawk
[Nova Imperium] [The Crescent Order]

Jinxblog's Avatar


Jinxblog
02.14.2013 , 01:09 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSkate View Post
What I should have said instead of "Don't think so" is "Most other guilds can not do this".
What you posted was in response to "2. Progression takes a hit".
Just because 2 or 3 guilds per server are hardcore enough to not care about cost does not mean that progression does not take a hit.
A majority of guilds ARE progression guilds, but they are not hard core progression guilds like yours.
They do not have 10-20 million credits to throw away every week to try to progress.
So those of us not in "real progression guilds" but in guilds that want to progress will have a much harder time doing so with the severe repair costs EA just implemented.
If you want to progress through flashpoints and raids without worrying about repair costs, join a guild, hardcore or not, that will specifically cover all the expenses of raiding OR you must come up with the cash on your own . If an aspect of this game (repair costs) is holding you back from another aspect of this game (raiding, doing flashpoints, leveling), go to a different game OR do the things that Bioware has set in place to combat the repair costs. Hint: Do dailies. Play the GTN. Buy cartel packs and sell them for creds (use real money).

I don't understand this thread. People are just complaining about a decision Bioware made and instead of trying adjust, they are whining, making assumptions, and stomping their feet about it.

What are your solutions to this perceived problem?
What good is this discussion if no one makes any good suggestions?
Where is the actual data from these "outrageous, skyrocketing prices"? What does 1 death cost for a lv10? Lv20? Lv30? Lv50? What does a real repair cost look like for a lowbie sporting purples?
What does an actual F2P person think about these new costs?
What can someone do about it?
What can Bioware reasonably do about it?
WHY did Bioware fix/change this?
No flames are necessary, you are already roasting in the fires of your own stupidity.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
02.14.2013 , 01:12 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Larity View Post
then run dailies?
take an hour of of your time to do something instead of sit around on the fleet or on the forums complaining about something so small?

seriously, credits are NOT a problem in this game when you can make 400k EASILY in a day

HECK sell the crap loot from running those and you can have 600k

you people need to stop whining and play the game.

*EDIT*
and before people use the excuse, "I WORK" and "I GO TO SCHOOL"

So do I, now stop being lazy.
If anything, you need to stop posting dumb stuff like this.

BaronV's Avatar


BaronV
02.14.2013 , 01:13 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVenizen View Post
Modifiable items now have repair costs based on the level of their base modification.

from 1.2

Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.

from current patch


so unless you have access to code that allows you to prove it was intended for the bug to happen, shut up
lol the sarcasm detector is weak with this one...

From what you are saying people should be experiencing a 33% increase in repair costs AT MOST (not including the fact that not every item has enhancements) - instead we are seeing 50-100% increases in repair costs...

or are you saying the cost of repairing just the enhancement is more than the cost of repairing everything else in the armouring??
I used to be a Jedi like you - until I took a blaster bolt to the knee

Levity's Avatar


Levity
02.14.2013 , 01:24 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I call that nonsense. Even if that were the case (and I'm a fairly experienced player who rarely died up to Lv 40) skill, ability and rep costs rise unpropotionally as you go along. I made maybe 30.000 credits between the levels 20-45 (after deducting my costs) and I'm usually one among the 'richest' among my group of friends. I had to lend people credits so they could buy their skill updates. That's never ever happened to me before.
By the time I was 45 on my first character, Jedi Guardian, I had almost a mil. Not everyone is an economist and look into how to get money, people just want **** handed to them. And that is all this entire thread is. Every game has a rediculous repair cost for the better gear you have. Learn to make money, it's not hard. On my server I sell stacks of terenthium(10 per stack.) For 7k a stack. 7... K... a stack. For the GRADE 1 underowlrd metal. Usually that's 2 underworld missions in the grade 1 category ranging between 1-5 mins. In an hour I have on avg 60-99 Terenthium. 42k-70k just from that in an hour. Not to mention agrinium crits where each goes for 4-8k. So sitting around an OP whiping for 4 hours will render (just from terenthium, rounded, 300k.) And guess WHAT. Companion missions for gathering are something you can do WHENEVER. So people who have lives, like me. School, work, family, gym. Your 10 hours a week turns into 600k+ from the grade 1 underworld metal while you are doing the content you want. Holy ****, mind blown. Of course every server is different on the scale of what things are worth, but one thing is server wide, *****es want their underworld metal. And here's a philosophy I live by, people will rather buy it and do it quick rather then farm it themselves. My repair costs when the symbol showed up on my picture saying things are yellow? 40 ish k. My repair cost now in the same scenerio? 40 ish k. Where's the difference? I haven't seen it. Cry moar. Oh and I send all five of my companions on underworld missions consistantly. Grades 1-6, broken down, grade 1 : 7k a stack, grade 2 : 4k a stack, grade 3: 8k a stack, grade 4: 9k a stack. Ciridium and Quadrium are 2k a stack so I stay away from them except for adundant yeilds that usually offer Mando iron and Promethium. BTW this can be done with any gathering profession. ANY. So the "I don't use underworld trading for my profession." doesn't work as an excuse. There's some diffculty to SWTOR, just like there was difficulty and WoW. But WoW not anymore, because of complainers like you making them dumb it down. So maybe when everything is handed to everyone SWTOR fans might be happy.

Elfindreams's Avatar


Elfindreams
02.14.2013 , 01:29 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinxblog View Post
What can Bioware reasonably do about it?
WHY did Bioware fix/change this?
Ok, want to get into specifics... good.

Proposal, half all repair costs.

Done...

Plus sides
Less time mindlessly grinding for cash or farming the GTN, more time actually playing the game (challenging yourself against challenging content, pvping, leveling new characters, whatever).
Easy, would probably take almost no time to code.
Affects everyone equally.

Minus sides
None. The only complaint I can come up with at all to this is "well I have plenty of money so who cares". Just because you are well off doesn't mean everyone else is. If you have enough money or a guild mechanism that means you aren't affected by this then this decision doesn't affect you one way or another, so butt out.

Why did bioware/ea make the change. I can only speculate but having done professional programming in the past, I am going to guess that some developer saw a broken line of code and went wait a minute... this semicolon shouldn't be here or this shouldn't be commented out... and fixed it, put it in a patch note. When it got to QA, qa tested it based on the patch note and saw it worked. No one sat back and said, huh I wonder what systematic effect this will have on the game.
The Jade Legacy Ebon Hawk
[Nova Imperium] [The Crescent Order]