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Best pvp tank for guarding healers?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Best pvp tank for guarding healers?

-DG-'s Avatar

02.11.2013 , 04:46 PM | #11
Due to your friend being a Scoundrel, and thus having stealth + being able to spec for dps/burst - I'd say that a Shadow might be the overall best choice - while not as good at guarding/"saving" the healer friend, as a Guardian the Shadow is still nice - The fun factor of being 2 stealth classes(and the added utility) could be really great and very fun.
Think of when you both get a bit bored by doing the very same-same-same, you could both go dps/burst, being able to capture nods with 2-4 enmies quite fast. Or you could both go range+a bit of melee-"harassment specs".

The Guardian while great and fun in itself, it's as good as always a melee class, that does most of it's doing in/while melee(ing). Both Scoundrel and Shadow could kinda be semi-good mid-long range classes, a quite different playstyle(compared to healer+tank, or dps/burst+dps/burst, or anyone of the different but possible specs).

And it transfers over to PvE as well, and both being able to stealth past mobs etc.

wadecounty's Avatar

02.16.2013 , 04:30 PM | #12
Agree about Guardian as the best spec to guard a healer, disagree about the build. The only thing you gain from going 27 (or 29) into the Defense tree instead of 18 is Hilt Strike, lowered cooldown on Push and extended duration on Enure.

For Enure, I'd take 4% flat DR and turning Focused Defense into a 15% damage reduction cooldown (that's additive, so if your DR is at 53% it shoots up to 68% with Focused Defense active, 88% with Focused Defense active and Unremitting going) over the extra 5 seconds on Enure and its 4% internal DR any day and twice on Sundays. Not to mention since you'll be gearing for Endurance, you'll be healing for more per tick on Focused Defense (about 550 per tick).

Hilt Strike is an extra 4 second stun, while Command lowers the cooldown of Force Push by 15 seconds. What does the hybrid offer that is superior to this? Simple, lowering the cooldown of Awe by 15 seconds. Awe is by far your best peeling tool in your arsenal, and lowering its cooldown by 15 seconds is definitely worth more than an extra single target stun or having Force Push up more often, provided you're playing with a smart team that won't break your Awe (but if you're playing a full-on PVP tank its already assumed you're with a smart team).

On top of all this, the hybrid at least gives you something to put some pressure on the opponent with in Overhead Slash, while going with 27/12/2 or 29/12/0 leaves you completely impotent.

sllo's Avatar

02.19.2013 , 08:47 PM | #13
Shanewatts question is a good one. I would, however, like to see it asked (and more importantly; answered) as such:

While Guardian might be the best at protecting a healer, which tank AC can form the best two-man team with a healer of each class?

I think this is an important distinction. I find that a strongly cohesive tank/healer combo can affect the outcome of games far more than a two-person team in any other MMO. My wife tends to play healers; I tend to play tanks. Our "mains" thus far have been sage/shadow and it's devastatingly effective since the two of such a pair makes up a full 25% of a WZ team compared to a smaller percentage in, say, a WoW BG. Furthermore; the tanking mechanics in this game serve to really allow a healer to be survivable when paired with a good tank in a way that dps peeling/cc and other tactics can only aspire to in other games.

What I don't know, however, is how the other tanks stack up. I feel like a tank-minded Vanguard or Guardian does not kill enough to rival what I'm capable of on my shadow but as I do not have one at 50 I cannot really say and would love to hear some other opinions. Their damage output over the course of a BG might actually be higher, but the on-demand burst a Kinetic Shadow is capable of is vital getting someone dead. I feel like my strategy is to nibble away, nibble away until I have something on the verge of defeat then burst them down before they/healers can react. It's quite effective.

How do you other tanks work with your healers? Which healers do you work best with?

bbare's Avatar

02.19.2013 , 10:16 PM | #14
Assassin Tank guarding an operative healer = unstoppable.
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Gramps's Avatar

03.06.2013 , 10:16 AM | #15
Can someone clarify what was said on page one, about shield being useless and absorption being worse?

Do either of these do anything at all in PvP?


Kitru's Avatar

03.06.2013 , 07:34 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Gramps View Post
Can someone clarify what was said on page one, about shield being useless and absorption being worse?

Do either of these do anything at all in PvP?
Shield and Absorb do the same thing in PvP as they do in PvE: they reduce damage from incoming melee/ranged attacks. The problem is that PvP is a different environment entirely.

First off, player attacks when weighted for damage dealt through actual use are *massively* in favor of Force/Tech attacks. In PvE, Shield and Absorb are great because a vast majority of incoming damage is going to be melee/ranged; the number of F/T attacks thrown at you is low enough that Shield and Absorb still have a substantial impact. Keep in mind, this applies to Defense just as well. This next one doesn't.

Mechanically, what a lot of newish players don't realize, is the two-roll system used by the game, which shows why Defense, even though it's terrible, is still mechanically better than Shield and Absorb in PvP. Any attack made against you first makes a roll to see whether it hits: the chance of the ability to hit (base accuracy + accuracy from rating/talents/etc) - the relevant Defense chance of the target (melee/ranged attacks use "Defense chance" whereas Force/Tech attacks use "Resistance chance"). Defense rating does nothing for Resistance chance, which is why it was said before that even Defense is bad in PvP because of the massive preference for damage through F/T attacks players show. The second roll, assuming the first succeeds, determines what kind of hit the attack ends up being, whether that is a shielded attack, a critical hit, or a normal hit, though it should be mentioned that only M/R attacks can be shielded, which is was already explained before. Since it's possible for the combined critical hit chance and shield chances to exceed 100%, it's entirely possible that the chance for a normal hit is complete removed from the table. Furthermore, if the combined chances *do* exceed 100%, crit chance takes priority and pushes Shield rating off of the table until the total chance is only 100%. As such, if an attack is a guaranteed critical hit, there is no chance to shield that attack. Since players have a lot of increased crit chances and guaranteed critical hits, Shield rating often gets pushed off of the table, making however much Shield rating *did* get pushed off the table redundant.

TL:DR; the reasons are based upon the innate mechanics (the reason why Shield and Absorb are inferior to Defense in PvP) combined with player attributes (high crit chances reducing the functional capabilities of Shield chance in those cases that it *is* applied) and the overall design of player damage capabilities (none of the tank stats do anything useful against Force/Tech attacks, which are the dominant way players deal damage).
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wadecounty's Avatar

03.07.2013 , 08:57 AM | #17
Well, I think another important reason why Defense should be preferred for PvP tanks (at least for now) that Kitru didn't mention is the ability to avoid negative effects tied to attacks. For example, defending a charge from a Knight/Warrior means you don't get rooted, defending a legshot from a Sniper/Gunslinger means no root, defending a Carnage Marauder's attacks means no root... huge helps for something like Huttball, where PvP tanks are most important.

There's other examples too besides roots, for example if a Pyro Powertech hits you with railshot, it'll reset his CGC which ticks immediately, defending means you not only avoid the railshot damage, but also the extra CGC damage.

All that said, 2.0 will be here somewhat soon, and with it and its changes shields will likely push ahead of defense for PvP tanks, but I wouldn't say defense will become worthless for the reasons I listed above, and the ability to avoid effects tied to certain attacks.

JouerTue's Avatar

03.18.2013 , 03:26 AM | #18
i will try those changes too