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Tanking Relics for PVE


grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
09.25.2012 , 07:30 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
I play a Shadow tank (the tank with the highest spikiness of incoming damage) and I've never found spikiness to be all that much of a complex survivability factor. With 30% defense chance and 65% shield chance, there's only a 6% chance that any 2 consecutive attacks would be normal hits. The only time that would actually kill a tank is against phase 2 Kephess, wherein the tank should be burning a CD anyways, further reducing the chance of consecutive attacks getting through.
The point is, I prefer to reduce the RNG in my mitigation by improving my change to mitigate than by increasing how much is mitigated. Proc is good for mean mitigation, but point for point, Defence is better for mean mitigation. How many tanks do you see stacking Defence?

IMO the Absorb proc relic is similar to the Sage AoE in PvP. The numbers look great but it doesn't actively keep anyone alive.

sankalp's Avatar


sankalp
09.26.2012 , 05:24 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
The point is, I prefer to reduce the RNG in my mitigation by improving my change to mitigate than by increasing how much is mitigated. Proc is good for mean mitigation, but point for point, Defence is better for mean mitigation. How many tanks do you see stacking Defence?

IMO the Absorb proc relic is similar to the Sage AoE in PvP. The numbers look great but it doesn't actively keep anyone alive.
upto a point.

if you keep shield static and plot a graph of def% vs Mitigation and absorb% vs mitigation, you will see that specially for an assassin, def stop being better than absorb at somewhere around 27%ish

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
09.26.2012 , 09:10 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by sankalp View Post
upto a point.

if you keep shield static and plot a graph of def% vs Mitigation and absorb% vs mitigation, you will see that specially for an assassin, def stop being better than absorb at somewhere around 27%ish
There are 2 variables in play. You can't look at them individually. I do know that absorb has more relative value for an Assassin thanks to Dark ward. But point for point, Defence should come out ahead assuming equal points in each. It's also worth noting that, since Defence is rolled first, higher Defence chance lowers the worth of Shield and Absorb,

AvatarofMalice's Avatar


AvatarofMalice
02.11.2013 , 02:07 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
There are 2 variables in play. You can't look at them individually. I do know that absorb has more relative value for an Assassin thanks to Dark ward. But point for point, Defence should come out ahead assuming equal points in each. It's also worth noting that, since Defence is rolled first, higher Defence chance lowers the worth of Shield and Absorb,
First of all, ths is a no-snark reply and I'm not an expert (it's so hard to convey tone in textual format); I only know what I've read and even then, the finite mechanics are only truly understood by the dev's. End disclaimer.
Defense will be superrior percent for percent, not point for point. Defense, after somewhere between 25-27% has a stiff diminishing return. Absorb has a much lower return, which kicks in at a much higher percentage. Also, absorb gives more percentage gain per point of rating than defense. So you will never have a "point for point" exchange between the two. Past an undefined amount (at least, I can find no hard number), the amount of defense rating you have to stack to gain even 1% when compared to the amount of absorb (and thereby mitigated damage) you would gain by replacing this with aborsorption is unbalanced. At that time, it is then more beneficial to stack absorb than defense; the defense you would have to stack to get from ~27% to 30% could easily get you around %50 absorb. the additional 3/100 damage not taken, when you could mitigate 25/100 of all damage [(.50 shield)*(.50 absorb)] would be inferior.** Of course, this is predicated on taking shield/defense and shield/absorb mods, because as you know absorb does nothing without a high shield rating. The magic numbers that I see in most technical reviews of how the three mechanics synergize is D% ~27-30%, Shld% ~50%, abrb% ~50% (for guardian tanks anyway; different for Shadows and Sins b/c they have a much higher shield% potential). I write enough term papers every semester that I don't need anymore practice citing sources, but the info is outthere for anyone who wants to know bad enough to thoroughly research Given the fact that all of us have different ideas or methods and we're all still out there tanking with varying degrees of success, I say "forgedda 'bout it" and go have fun!

**However, up to around ~27% defence chance, defense is superior because it gives comparable gains, and = a "no damage chance" vs a "reduced damage" chance.
ITS A TRAP!

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
02.11.2013 , 03:59 PM | #25
from another thread in here. these are the damage modifiers for the various DG relics (starting at 1600 build, lower is better)

on use Def - on Use shield - proc absorb - 100 stats
PT 0.464 - 0.462 - 0.46075 - 0.4566
Jugg 0.42515 - 0.4237 - 0.42315 - 0.42
Sin 0.3519 - 0.35015 - 0.34846 - 0.3452

assuming time averaged. based on 1600 optimal build (not considering itemization limitations)