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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.10.2013 , 04:37 AM | #1121
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
That the optimistic opinion. The less optimistic one is that Electro Net is the planned escape mechanism, there will be no help for Mercs before Makeb, and oh, yeah.... Electro Net won't help you escape from enemy melee.
Yes it will. The net slows your target and prevents them from using leaps, vanish, and speed boosts. Do you know how *********** useful that net will be? This is HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE utility for RWZ. You can literally now guarantee death for ops and sage healers since for 9 seconds they will not be able to vanish or speed away to safety. Same with sents and guardians. They won't be able to stealth or friendly leap away to avoid dying. This will also be huge in huttball by preventing guardians from leaping to friendlies or enemies, forcing them to either pass or wait it out which opens up time for you to either kill him, or intercept the pass. What I'm wondering is if a char that is netted can still be friendly pulled. I hope not. Oh and it apparently does damage too on top of that stuff and it's 50% snare. I just hope to god the CD on the net is super low.

The shoulder cannon thing sounds pretty cool too, it seems like it's extra dps we get while we're CC, which we can unload once we're no longer CCed.

The gunnery changes look pretty nice too. Absorb one force/tech attack? Yes please. Lols at the focus spec knights.

Combat medic didn't seem to get much love, and honestly I'm a little disappointed. None of the changes address the issue of being completely reliant on casts, and that our resource management is crap compared to the other two healers.

Pefny's Avatar


Pefny
02.10.2013 , 07:53 AM | #1122
Let me clarifie about absorb force/tech attack - according to datamine it's gonna be chance to absorb next one tech or force attack (for ex. PT can still hit for 5k with rail shot - it's ranged attack) after using chaft fire/diversion (45 s CD). If u want to confront it with Saber Reflect, which gonna be reflceting all single target ranged, tech and force attack durning duration... For closer look to rest of changes check my previous post. Specially if u realize that electro net is for all Troopers/BHs - Mercs, Mandos, VGs and PTs.
CERUS - PYRO MERC/CERFUN - ASSAULT COMMANDO - ATM on vacation, thanks to critical dameges to AC made by BW
CERATION - PYRO/SHIELD PT
BEROYA LEGACY - ToFN

PerinnAybara's Avatar


PerinnAybara
02.10.2013 , 08:53 AM | #1123
Why won't they do anything for Mercenary Healers Probably because I whined too much.
Character: Mathrim Cauthon, 50 Mercenary on Prophecy of the Five

klham's Avatar


klham
02.10.2013 , 10:51 AM | #1124
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
That the optimistic opinion. The less optimistic one is that Electro Net is the planned escape mechanism, there will be no help for Mercs before Makeb, and oh, yeah.... Electro Net won't help you escape from enemy melee.
I hope that's not the case. Electro Net would only assist escape from mdps if used in tandem with other abilities provided they're off cooldown. Something that requires us to blow our few defensive cooldowns just to escape once from one mdps won't improve our quality of life in the WZs that much. Also, something with as much group utility as Electro Net would probably be on cooldown most of the time.

Re heal spec, I'm glad they are planning to buff kolto bomb/missile with a localized HoT mechanic, and it makes sense considering the animation. However, the single biggest healer-specific limitation is resource management. Due to the lack of an escape relative to the other healing Advanced Classes, the BH/Trooper heal spec is forced to dps a much greater % of the time relative to other healers. Very rarely do you see merc/mando healers finish a full WZ with the kind of lopsided numbers like 9:1 healing vs dmg, which is not unusual for the other healers. Constantly re-allocating your time & resources to self-defensive dps'ing means your resources are always bottoming out once you've blown the vent/recharge cooldown. There's very little wiggle-room there, and resource mgt is much less forgiving than it is for a Sage/Sorc healer. So there's a lot riding on what sort of new escape ability they have planned for us. It can either totally rejuvenate the class, or conversely it could have very little meaningful effect, depending.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.10.2013 , 12:09 PM | #1125
Quote: Originally Posted by Pefny View Post
Let me clarifie about absorb force/tech attack - according to datamine it's gonna be chance to absorb next one tech or force attack (for ex. PT can still hit for 5k with rail shot - it's ranged attack) after using chaft fire/diversion (45 s CD). If u want to confront it with Saber Reflect, which gonna be reflceting all single target ranged, tech and force attack durning duration... For closer look to rest of changes check my previous post. Specially if u realize that electro net is for all Troopers/BHs - Mercs, Mandos, VGs and PTs.
It says % chance because it's probably one of those 2 point talents that go 50/100. And the vast majority of damage in this game is tech/force and all CC is tech/force. It will be useful as hell.

Where does it say net is for all troopers? Just because it's listed under the general "trooper" section on Darth Hater doesn't mean it is. If you look at dual saber throw--which is listed under JK on that website--it says requires 2 sabers to use. So it's clearly a sentinel only ability, but still listed under the general JK. So the net is 90% likely to be commando's escape mechanism and it's pretty good. Provides utility as well as an instant long lasting slow.

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
02.10.2013 , 12:56 PM | #1126
Quote: Originally Posted by yoomazir View Post
It doesn't matter if we get a 10-15% alacrity bonus, it doesn't matter if we get a 9 seconds Unload cooldown, it doesn't matter if Powershot cost less, we can't deal any dmg if we get interrupted or pushed, THAT, is the problem.

If you are face to face against any other classes, you can't bother using Tracer Missile, Powershot or Unload, simply because you are going to be interrupted or pushed back between 1-3 times IN A ROW depending the class you are facing, that's means during all that time (2-6 seconds, a lifetime in a 1v1) you deal ZERO damage to the opponent while he roflstomp you to death...

What can we do instead? Running, using Rapid Shots and praying that our instant ablities cooldowns are reseted, and that is beyond ridiculous, because, a Powertech for example, can not only do the same, but possess another extra instant cast ability that also allows him to reset another instant ability.

So, to the Bioware pvp development team, CHANNELED ATTACKS ARE A NO GO UNLESS THEY ARE UNINTERRUPTABLE, just, please, think for a second instead of giving us useless skills! Or better: PLAY THE DAMN CLASS, and see how good you are going to fare against any other competent AC player.

IF Bioware plans to stick with those ridiculous skills then it should be at least a 50% alacrity bonus, a 6 second Unload cooldown... and even like that we wouldn't even come close to any good Mara/Assassin/Scoundrel, until then, move along folks, Commando/Mercs are still going to be the WZ laughing stock.
^^^

pretty much what i've been saying since June 2012...

i will never play a casting class in SWTOR...it's so damn easy to shut em down. and mercs??!! LOL, they need to cast to build up DPS!!

seriously, who the frank is in charge over there? a damn 7 year old?
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
02.10.2013 , 12:57 PM | #1127
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Yes it will. The net slows your target and prevents them from using leaps, vanish, and speed boosts. Do you know how *********** useful that net will be? This is HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE utility for RWZ.
It'll be something for the Vanguards/PTs who are also getting it,and have always been the darlings of RWZs. I presume like other trooper effects it'll also be cleansable by operatives.

Why bring a DPS merc?
WFW - Waiting For Wildstar
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Pefny's Avatar


Pefny
02.10.2013 , 01:17 PM | #1128
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
It says % chance because it's probably one of those 2 point talents that go 50/100. And the vast majority of damage in this game is tech/force and all CC is tech/force. It will be useful as hell.

Where does it say net is for all troopers? Just because it's listed under the general "trooper" section on Darth Hater doesn't mean it is. If you look at dual saber throw--which is listed under JK on that website--it says requires 2 sabers to use. So it's clearly a sentinel only ability, but still listed under the general JK. So the net is 90% likely to be commando's escape mechanism and it's pretty good. Provides utility as well as an instant long lasting slow.
I assume that 'cuz it's beetwen abilities for all Troopers/BHs and I don't see the any counterindications to be also VG/PT skill. So far as I know BW better and better I'm pretty sure that, if they add this skill to game will be for both ACs (and has 10m range).

I didn't say that attack absorb is crap, but iif compare it with Sent/Mara reflection it's not that bright. Add to it current situation of Commando/Merc to Sent/Mara. First one is nerfed to the ground and useless, 2nd is viable PvP class and still Merc gonna get buff only "in half" as good as Mara.
CERUS - PYRO MERC/CERFUN - ASSAULT COMMANDO - ATM on vacation, thanks to critical dameges to AC made by BW
CERATION - PYRO/SHIELD PT
BEROYA LEGACY - ToFN

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
02.10.2013 , 01:23 PM | #1129
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Yes it will. The net slows your target and prevents them from using leaps, vanish, and speed boosts. Do you know how *********** useful that net will be? This is HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE utility for RWZ. You can literally now guarantee death for ops and sage healers since for 9 seconds they will not be able to vanish or speed away to safety.
Did you even read my prior posts? Have you been paying even the slightest amount of attention? If you put Electro Net on a competent enemy melee, he will keep moving to purposefully ramp up the damage from it, and then once it is at a high level he will put up Saber Reflect and kill you with your own Electro Net. Enemy melee will have an even easier time killing Mercs 1v1 now because even if you get the melee to the point where both sides are at about 20% health, the enemy can use Saber Reflect at the terminal part of the fight for what effectively is an auto kill.

Nor will Electro Net help kill enemy healers. They can cleanse Electro Net, or in the case of Sorcs, simply keep on moving until the damage becomes meaningful and then use Force Barrier. The only character class that Electro Net provides a net benefit against are Snipers. And there the benefit is miniscule, since they aren't going to move when fighting you anyway.

You have fallen into the trap of thinking about all our new abilities in isolation and not in the context of how all the new abilities interact and function.

Azrienov's Avatar


Azrienov
02.10.2013 , 01:54 PM | #1130
One guy posts something on Darth Hater, and this thread turns on itself and starts eating each other. Jesus. Lets remember a few things:

Whoever datamined this isn't a developer at bioware. Inevitably, that means they will need to interpret the data they find.

Interpretive liberties include these things:

Electronet prevents escapes. BW haven't defined what constitutes an escape as it relates to this ability. 9 seconds still makes this ability a marauder killer considering you also have a cannon that acts independently of the GCD and is most likely instant cast.

Saber Reflect may very well be Guardian/Jugg only, as BW hasn't released it yet. Even then it specifically states "Direct Damage". This more than likely has nothing to do with PERIODIC DAMAGE as electronet will be.

Commando healers got a nice gift with their instant cast puddle heal now. If it heals for even 75% of what the Sorc's does, we're looking at a seriously nasty addition to the game there.

Assault got shafted with the preliminary data. Until we know what the modifiers are, it'll remain on the shafted list.

Gunnery gets the potential for 2 instant cast abilities. This is actually a nice idea because in a bad situation a well geared, intelligent gunnery commando will net, knockback, double instagrav, demo round, hib, and finish up with a full auto on a target. Thats ALOT of damage to anyone if you can get that all off, and with a long snare time, its more than feasible. Add in the shoulder cannon chipping away that entire time and we're looking at the potential nerf bat here.

Now thats all theory crafting. All of whats being said here is. What I can say is that Bioware threw 'mando/merc a bone. It's all we've ever really asked for here. A bone. We already have to play twice as well as any other AC to be successful anyway. With a few more tools, we're more than capable of demonstrating a respectable capability for murder.

Stop flipping out going "OMG BIOFAIL IS FAIL." Be patient and be realistic. Nothing here is concrete, and all of this is subjective to personal interpretation until it comes out.