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On "Need" loot rolls.


SturmUndSterne's Avatar


SturmUndSterne
02.10.2013 , 10:38 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
The problem with ToR loosystem is not the different needrolls that the characters from the same class do, the BIG problem is players from other classes needing on items they canīt use.

Communication solve almost every time if a piece of heavy armor str head with defensive stats drops and both a dps jugg and a tank jugg are present. The team will let the tank specced juggernaut have the item, that is pure common sense.

The problem occur when the trooper for example in the team decides that the heavy armor str head is equal his and he has to have it and presses need. The trooper have no use for it, he cant let a companion have it, the only thing he can do is either sell it or let it collect dust in the bank,

This has been discussed so many times in so many threads that Bioware really has to let us know if they are working on it, player feedback is important they say. The community screams for a answer regarding this in hundreds of threads and thousands of posts.

Let us know once and for all if we are preaching to deaf ears here, please!!
And they already have. Working as intended, they said, over a year ago.

However, people won't bother to use the search function, and they keep making the same thread over and over again.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.10.2013 , 12:06 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by SturmUndSterne View Post
And they already have. Working as intended, they said, over a year ago.

However, people won't bother to use the search function, and they keep making the same thread over and over again.
First a few things :

1. Provide proof that they have said that because it is to my knowledge not true. I would also like to know if that person that said that even work at Bioware, they have lost ALOT of DEVs. They even argued a bit regarding the implementation of a extra button hence the need/greed, I think that is something they simply left unfinished. Need/greed was not available when ToR launched for example.

2. Things said over a year ago is not set in stone. Remember when the groupfinder was about to be created, they said they were against it since they wanted the community to build teams of their own. Guess what, it didnīt happen and players flew away like flies. So they had to create it.

3. Players do use the searchfunction, but in most cases there is always a new angle to the problem, there are hundreds of them with this flawed lootsystem. This forum proves that. No thread is exactly the same and adress exactly the same problem, read yourself and you will see.

You can always identify a real problem by watching the forums. If a certain problem return over and over again and then some more something has to be done. This is not a forum where players write only because they "want to feel special" this is a forum where we are supposed to give Bioware feedback and let THEM know how WE feel.

I have a good perspective of this game since I have followed it along time. My account creation date is 02.01.09 and I have been around since launch.

I acknowledge this anarchy lootsystem as a problem since it creates alot of conflicts in the game. A true gamer that cares for both the game and the community writes what he/she feels here on the forum in a constructive way.

The playerbase will continue to create threads that contain different problems with the lootsystem until Bioware acknowledges the problem and implement a solution in a future patch.

We will see players create alot more threads about situations that could be avoided with a common sense lootsystem over and over and then some more that I am 100% certain of.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.10.2013 , 12:22 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by legolegion View Post
ignore and boot them
Yes that is what happens. A player knowingly or not knowingly ninjas a item and ends up on ignorelists and gets kicked off the team.

Conflict created and friends lost

Biowares anarchy lootsystem in a nutshell

nite_shade's Avatar


nite_shade
02.10.2013 , 01:16 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
Bioware needs to change this anarchy lootsystem where everyone can roll on everything.

The basic rule is that if you can equip it and benefit from it (most with a IQ of 35 or more understands that you let the tank have the tank gear and healer healinggear and so on) the item is yours to needroll on if your character is in the instance can use it. If the item will be used in some other way like for a complanion, to sell it, to eat it, to let it collect dust in the bank the greed roll should be used, or pass.

Some guilds tend to set up special lootrules that are based on progression, a tank benefits more from having tank items and healer healer items.

This has gotten out of hand completely, last night I got kicked from a team by simply asking politely why a pistol using merc took a lightsaber with needroll. I got called lots of names and ofcourse I reported it for Bioware to let them see how bad the community has become.

Need rolls has to be blocked form players that cant handle the difference of need/greed/pass

So many other MMOs has done it with great success, why should The old Republic still live in the stoneage when it is such a simple thing to change.

After all we all wants to get along and get new friends, arguing about a unclear lootsystem are creating more war then peace. I know that for a fact since launch.
Well, put! I've seen this growing worse ever since F2P.... When I see a player in a Flashpoint without a Legacy name these days it's fills me full of dread. You just know what's going to happen.... need I say more?

I understand the need to get some new blood.. but the f2p model is just not Flashpoint friendly. I hate to say it, but can we please have a similar/same system as most other MMOs, or even WoW...... THe only issues I see, is that you would not be able to roll on companion loot if every one passes or greeds... which also bring me to those that need for their companion, even when there's a class that needs it on the group!

RLWalker's Avatar


RLWalker
02.10.2013 , 04:06 PM | #16
I think the current system is fine. There are a lot of different ways to define need. For myself, I consider need to be making use of the item in some way other than vendoring. That doesn't mean I recklessly hit need on everything that drops (actually I rarely run flashpoints or group finder so it doesn't come up much) - if the item is important to someone of course I will pass.

Now some people are proposing solutions to make the system better. I see two approaches people are taking: (a) restricting loot rolls, and (b) creating more roll options like "need for companion", etc. I see enough problems with both to reject them.

Restricting loot rolls not only makes a lot of people annoyed it actually doesn't solve the problem in the first place! People will be annoyed because they may be looking for certain mods, or a certain look, or gear for companions, or crafting materials, or they like the name/icon of the item or any other reason under the sun. To me any of those reasons are valid to need on an item. I am not saying that they are more important than gearing up but the option should exist for having a reasonable shot at the item. As for solving problems this proposal simply doesn't stand up. Consider a dread guard geared marauder rolling need on a medium armor strength columi item. Oops the system just failed at it's goal. Ok so now we include an item level check. But of course we have all seen where the next tiers itemization makes it worse than the current tier. So now the poor marauder is stuck with a higher item level crappy gear and can't roll on a better one. It would also be impossible to "side-grade" for a different itemization.

As for creating more loot roll options, well this quickly turns into a mess. Is main-toon off-spec higher priority than third-alt main-spec? What about second-alt off-spec vs. main-toon companion. Yuck! Keep me out of that mess.

I actually liked the original story mode loot system. You got to see all the awesome loot that dropped and no arguments over who gets what because it's all pre-assigned. Unfortunately some people couldn't handle not winning loot and there were enough complaints to get that changed.

Anyways I would suggest to all people who want to avoid drama - please talk it out with the other people in the group. Sure there may be the occasional idiot but the vast majority of people are happy to pass on loot if you let them know you want it.

Swaption's Avatar


Swaption
02.10.2013 , 05:25 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
As for solving problems this proposal simply doesn't stand up. Consider a dread guard geared marauder rolling need on a medium armor strength columi item. Oops the system just failed at it's goal. Ok so now we include an item level check. But of course we have all seen where the next tiers itemization makes it worse than the current tier. So now the poor marauder is stuck with a higher item level crappy gear and can't roll on a better one. It would also be impossible to "side-grade" for a different itemization.
.
The problem with item level checking is that it incentivizes over geared characters to put on crappy gear to have a shot at lower level items. Also, on my 63 geared main, I often put on columi gear when pugging if the group looks potentially undergeared (reduces my repair costs).
Kgu - Sniper | Kzg - Mercenary | K-g - Marauder

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.10.2013 , 06:47 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
IConsider a dread guard geared marauder rolling need on a medium armor strength columi item.
The system will not be bullitproof but a dread geared marauder is probably more concerned about his reputation then be called out a ninja for taking something he has no use for. If you have come so far into the game you are well aware the difference between columni and dread guard equipment.

Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
IAs for creating more loot roll options, well this quickly turns into a mess. Is main-toon off-spec higher priority than third-alt main-spec? What about second-alt off-spec vs. main-toon companion. Yuck! Keep me out of that mess.
They system I am proposing does not take spec into account at all. A trooper can roll on heavy aim loot and a shadow can roll need on willpower light armour and so on. The rest can be handled by common sense within the group if needed. I am sure a dps will not deny a tank specc a item or a dps a healer a item.


Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
I actually liked the original story mode loot system. You got to see all the awesome loot that dropped and no arguments over who gets what because it's all pre-assigned. Unfortunately some people couldn't handle not winning loot and there were enough complaints to get that changed.
I was there, I looted stuff this way. I canīt say I support it but it was one way of solving it

Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
IAnyways I would suggest to all people who want to avoid drama - please talk it out with the other people in the group. Sure there may be the occasional idiot but the vast majority of people are happy to pass on loot if you let them know you want it .
This is not how reality works nowdays. Only a few nights ago I got kicked and insulted badly for simply asking why a pistol user needed on a lightsaber (Bioware has all the facts, the logs and report). Some players seems to think all players lives in a fluffy dreamworld where everyone understands eachother frorm the start and can set ground rules, but they are rarely kept and players that you do not know canīt be trusted by default. Alot of posts bring this matter to attention aswell with the need of a secure tradewindow (but that is another story).

By simply changing the lootsystem to common sense the community will avoid alot of grief. I respect those that wants to be able to loot everything but I still do not understand why. Is it by some wierd personal gain that every item belong to them, or some wierd esoterical interpretation of freedom of looting.

It will never make sense to me how items clearly designed for a class has equal possibliity to end up with someone that has absolutly no use for it, and some even admit they use need to grief other players from getting the loot they need to gear up.

This community clearly needs rules how loot is divided, I wonder if Bioware gets amused when they read how mad some of the players get in their posts. Who knows, I still have faith in this game and in Bioware but regarding this matter the community really deserves a answer. I wonder how long we as a community has to wait until someone at Bioware finally wakes up and gives us a decent answer.

LydMekk's Avatar


LydMekk
02.10.2013 , 08:54 PM | #19
The loot system cannot be left as it is. F2Ps are rolling need on everything. Ofc ingore and boot, but the system must be changed to Need only on class appropriate gear.

steave's Avatar


steave
02.10.2013 , 08:56 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
[B]
This has been discussed so many times in so many threads
It has indeed, and every time you jump in there with that suggestions. I agree with it, but this thread was asking for our opinions on loot etiquette - not complaining about ninjas nor trying to figure out a way to get rid of them, so leave that debate to one of the other thousand threads for it.