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Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Obi Wan the Inflexible?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Obi Wan the Inflexible?

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
02.07.2013 , 06:30 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
When did he ask Anakin not to come along? He may be assigned to another task by the Jedi Council and couldn't help Obi.
In the novel Shadow Conspiracy.

Quote:
"And the Jedi Council will do nothing, of course." Anakin said disgustedly.

"It's not as simple as that," Obi Wan said reluctantly. "The Senate_"

"The Senate will do even less," Anakin said. "But we're not the Senate or the Council, are we? Ready when you are, Obi Wan."

Obi Wan felt a surge of gratitude. Anakin was loyal, and a good friend. But that wasn't what he wanted from his former Padawan.

"I will hear quite enough from Master Yoda without involving you," Obi Wan said."Let's keep the level of uproar to merely enormous, shall we?"

Anakin shook his head.

"Anakin, this is my burden to bear," Obi Wan said. "I appreciate your wanting to help, but I must do this alone."

Anakin gazed at Obi Wan, saw he wouldn't change his mind, and nodded unhappily.
The cartoon had to delete this scene because there isn't enough time.

Reedek's Avatar


Reedek
02.08.2013 , 07:30 AM | #12
Seriously, how many threads have you started about Satine in the last few weeks?

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
02.08.2013 , 09:44 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
In the novel Shadow Conspiracy.
The cartoon had to delete this scene because there isn't enough time.
With all the pointless screentime used up, something as important as that was left out? Ok. Let's say that was the case, it sounds within character. How could Obi-wan forsee that Maul would be involved? Obi-wan would be more than a match for Visla, should he have to face him. Sure he had the Force, but so does the Council and they couldn't even tell Palpatine was the Sith Lord.

And to your last question, I really didn't answer that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
What does bring Anakin for help and let him fix the ship, not to enrage Maul has anything to do with living as a slave?
All of it, but politics are a factor.

Brining Anakin to fight Deathwatch would have been overkill. Obi-wan was already going to be in a heap of trouble, bringing Anakin and his hot headedness into a situation that could require a gentile touch would be adding gas to the fire. Anakin could have made a bad situation worse, and expose the Jedi Council to negative reprecussions. It would be perfect propaganda to show how the Jedi are a rogue element within the Republic. One Jedi is bad enough, but can be explained away. Having two Jedi operating together, in time of war when resources are streached thin already, would mean that the Council has lost control of it's Jedi (and their respective commands. Don't forget, they are technically Republic Generals) or that the Council approved of their actions against the will of the Senate. Can't imagine the firestorm from that one.

Given what was known, Anakin would have made things worse. I can't imagine a more selfish and self serving act than to bring his friend along.

Fixing the ship. Time was of the essence and the broken ship aided in disarming the Deathwatch mentally. Sure it was a risk, but Obi-wan is a Jedi.

I've gone back and watched it again, what made Maul kill her wasn't Obi-wan making him mad. As soon as I saw the way Maul was sitting, I knew he was going to kill Satine. Not a word was uttered yet. Maul planned to kill her in front of Obi-wan to enrage him. Simple Sith tactic. She was dead the moment Maul set foot on Mandalore, he just used her as bait and when the bait was taken, he killed her. It had nothing to do with making Maul mad.
It's amazing how loud a dollar can be.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristin Wilson

mattchanner's Avatar


mattchanner
02.08.2013 , 11:09 AM | #14
I don't understand what obi-wan did wrong. everything he did was logical he did not ask anikan for help because he did not need it, at the time he did not know that it was a trap let alone a trap made by 2 sith. He slipped in and got her out so easily if maul had not been there and waiting they would have gotten away no problem. No amount of groveling on obi-wan's part would have stopped maul from killing her. maul killed her simply to hurt obi.

I will now unfairly contrast this to malgus
Spoiler
U MAD? Let go of your Anger.
Look I made a Dumb fan video too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USRec...el_video_title

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
02.08.2013 , 12:26 PM | #15
Quote:
With all the pointless screentime used up, something as important as that was left out? Ok. Let's say that was the case, it sounds within character. How could Obi-wan forsee that Maul would be involved? Obi-wan would be more than a match for Visla, should he have to face him. Sure he had the Force, but so does the Council and they couldn't even tell Palpatine was the Sith Lord.
His failure has nothing to do with Maul, Maul did nothing other than asked the Death Watch to shoot rockets before Twilight crashed, after it was crashed, it got no difference if you change Maul brothers to Viszla and Bo-Katan. Obi Wan got 0 chance to get away with Satine after that.


Quote:
All of it, but politics are a factor.

Brining Anakin to fight Deathwatch would have been overkill. Obi-wan was already going to be in a heap of trouble, bringing Anakin and his hot headedness into a situation that could require a gentile touch would be adding gas to the fire. Anakin could have made a bad situation worse, and expose the Jedi Council to negative reprecussions. It would be perfect propaganda to show how the Jedi are a rogue element within the Republic. One Jedi is bad enough, but can be explained away. Having two Jedi operating together, in time of war when resources are streached thin already, would mean that the Council has lost control of it's Jedi (and their respective commands. Don't forget, they are technically Republic Generals) or that the Council approved of their actions against the will of the Senate. Can't imagine the firestorm from that one.
Not overkill at all, unlike last few times, the Death Watch had taken over Mandalore and they got crime families behind them. And it proved they need it.

So what? Mandalore is a very important faction, it's the Jedi council's short sight to not investigate it.
And that's nothing compare to someone's life.



Quote:
Given what was known, Anakin would have made things worse. I can't imagine a more selfish and self serving act than to bring his friend along.
Let Anakin stay on the ship and start it when they got out could save them a lot of time. He's passionate but not brainless.

Quote:
Fixing the ship. Time was of the essence and the broken ship aided in disarming the Deathwatch mentally. Sure it was a risk, but Obi-wan is a Jedi.
It only takes one hour.

Quote:
I've gone back and watched it again, what made Maul kill her wasn't Obi-wan making him mad. As soon as I saw the way Maul was sitting, I knew he was going to kill Satine. Not a word was uttered yet. Maul planned to kill her in front of Obi-wan to enrage him. Simple Sith tactic. She was dead the moment Maul set foot on Mandalore, he just used her as bait and when the bait was taken, he killed her. It had nothing to do with making Maul mad.
Maul was trying to torture her at the beginning, then he was enraged and went kill her.

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
02.08.2013 , 12:27 PM | #16
Most sith dont realy love in my opinion, its more of an obsession over their passions then realy love.
sith are drived mostly by selfish desires.
Obi wan simply loved satine for what she was and her loved him as such, its very clear in this episode when Maul tells Obi to release his anger and satine tells him not to.
I wouldnt say they werent driven by their passions they are human after all, but both of them didnt let these feelings to become obsessions and cloud their judgements. Not like Anakin for instance.

Quote:
Maul was trying to torture her at the beginning, then he was enraged and went kill her.
He was enraged for years, but he even tells to Obi that he planed all along to kill satine in the moment he understood what she meant for Obi wan. It wasnt Obi wan fault, not realy.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
02.08.2013 , 12:30 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by mattchanner View Post
I don't understand what obi-wan did wrong. everything he did was logical he did not ask anikan for help because he did not need it, at the time he did not know that it was a trap let alone a trap made by 2 sith.
Yeah he didn't need it, so we saw Satine came back alive right?

He knew

1. Satine lost Mandalore
2. Crime families are involved.

Which means it's much more serious than last few times.


Quote:
He slipped in and got her out so easily if maul had not been there and waiting they would have gotten away no problem. No amount of groveling on obi-wan's part would have stopped maul from killing her. maul killed her simply to hurt obi.
Easily? He was already exposed after that guard found him, and Maul did not attack before Twilight's crash.

Maul was trying to torture her at the beginning, he was enraged later then killed her.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
02.08.2013 , 12:32 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
Most sith dont realy love in my opinion, its more of an obsession over their passions then realy love.
sith are drived mostly by selfish desires.
Obi wan simply loved satine for what she was and her loved him as such, its very clear in this episode when Maul tells Obi to release his anger and satine tells him not to.
I wouldnt say they werent driven by their passions they are human after all, but both of them didnt let these feelings to become obsessions and cloud their judgements. Not like Anakin for instance.

He was enraged for years, but he even tells to Obi that he planed all along to kill satine in the moment he understood what she meant for Obi wan. It wasnt Obi wan fault, not realy.
Obi Wan let the discipline cloud his judgement, that's why he failed.

No, he said he wait for years but in truth he never knew Satine before he met Viszla.

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
02.08.2013 , 12:49 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Obi Wan let the discipline cloud his judgement, that's why he failed.

No, he said he wait for years but in truth he never knew Satine before he met Viszla.
That is not what i meant.... and its not what Maul meant either... sad you didnt understand what Maul said...
He tells obi that never meant for Obi wan to be killed, but to suffer. Only when he understood that satine holded meaning for him, then satines fate was set. Only way to save her was to kill maul and savage and the remaing death watch and his army, even with anakin there... either way Obi wan didnt know.

But about obi wan i belive its the oposite it was his discipline, or rather i think his nature that saved him from falling to the dark side or worst. And how is judgement was clouded? he never lost perspective of what he was, or what satine meant for him. If he enraged himself like Maul wanted he then would have the mind clouded. And satine would be dead all the same.

Also i must say Maul got enraged so badly because Obi wan was telling the truth, and was hiting a vulnerable spot of Mauls. That shows clarity not miss judgment in my opinion.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
02.08.2013 , 12:58 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
That is not what i meant.... and its not what Maul meant either... sad you didnt understand what Maul said...
He tells obi that never meant for Obi wan to be killed, but to suffer. Only when he understood that satine holded meaning for him, then satines fate was set. Only way to save her was to kill maul and savage and the remaing death watch and his army, even with anakin there... either way Obi wan didnt know.
Maul never said he was going to kill Satine before he was enraged, what he did was torture her to lure Obi Wan to the Dark Side. I don't see him kill Satine in short time otherwise it would take secs for her to be choked to death. So don't enrage him, don't let him kill Satine to save some time, is it something hard to do?

Quote:
But about obi wan i belive its the oposite it was his discipline, or rather i think his nature that saved him from falling to the dark side or worst. And how is judgement was clouded? he never lost perspective of what he was, or what satine meant for him. If he enraged himself like Maul wanted he then would have the mind clouded. And satine would be dead all the same.
Anakin offered help and he refused, if he brought him, Satine could be saved. Yes, he didn't fall to the Dark Side, but he let his lover died for his discipline.

Nobody asked him to enrage himself, but can he, pls, close his mouth when he saw Maul was getting angry for his words?

Do you think it's good idea to enrage the kidnapper to kill the hostage? It's not "telling the truth or not", it's to save life.