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Ranked WZ is too hardcore as it is now, something needs to change.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Ranked WZ is too hardcore as it is now, something needs to change.

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
02.07.2013 , 09:34 AM | #1
Ranked WZ is one of the most hardcore gameplay in SWTOR, only second to 16-man NM ops, or maybe even on par with it. It requires 8 players to form an ops group to que, just like 8-man ops PvE. But it is vastly more difficult and hardcore than 8 man ops PvE because:

1. In PvE, tactics stay the same for most part for each programed boss. In RWZ, Tactics vary in a moment’s notice depending on the opponent’s group composition and tactics.

2. In PvE, progression can be seen by how far the group brings the boss’ HP down to. In RWZ, a group may be improving, but can still be not good enough to compete, making progression difficult to measure.

3. In PvE, gear progression is gradual and its effect can be measured on performance in each boss fight. In RWZ, if a player is not decked out (Min/Max), then he/she can’t compete. Even then, it is difficult to measure gear progression.

4. In PvE, all classes and specs can participate and reach a good effectiveness to make progression. In RWZ, only a few selective “OP” classes and specs participate (bubble stunners, op healers, smashers, pyrotechs … etc.), or else the group can’t compete effectively and it is difficult to measure other classes and specs effectiveness.

5. This ties back to the above four. In PvE, progression can be seen and measured. In RWZ, a group may be making progress and still lose badly to a top group, making the experience frustrating and discouraging.


This is a comparison to show how difficult and hardcore RWZ is in the spectrum of all of SWTOR gameplay contents. On the scale of 1 – 100 with 1 being most casual and easiest and 100 being most hardcore and difficult, RWZ is definitely a 100. Because of this, only a few selected hardcore players have the time, effort, determination, and tenacity to take on the RWZ challenge. I dare to say less than 50 players, out of thousands, on each server would do RWZ consistently, and less than 100 players on each server would do RWZ occasionally. Surely even BW realize this with its metrics, which is why we have been on RWZ pre-season for almost a year and season 1 still has not started.

Without going into complicated topics like class balance, which is an entire topic on its own, here is what I am proposing for improve RWZ participation:

1. Make WZ and RWZ cross server to increase player pool. Although, BW doesn’t seem to like this idea because it kills the “community.”

2. Make RWZ 4-man que only, as oppose to 8-man. Yes, it would suck if a good group is stuck in a game with a bad group. However, this can also happen to the opposing team. What I am betting on is that over time, the good groups will get better ratings and pull ahead of the bad groups, and eventually the good groups will be teamed up and matched against each other base on ratings, and the bad groups will be teamed up and matched against each other base on ratings. Group ratings should be the average of all players’ ratings in the group.


I believe 2 is the best short term solution. Lowering the group limit from 8 to 4 will make it easier for less hardcore players to form groups to participate, and therefore increases participation in RWZ. In WoW, 2-man arena has more participation than 3-man, which has more than 5-man. Less people requirement makes it easier to participate; 8-man is just too much of a requirement for most players for PvP.

SOULCASTER's Avatar


SOULCASTER
02.07.2013 , 09:47 AM | #2
I'm not sure why bioware thinks the cross-server would kill the community. We can't even talk to the other faction on our own servers. When I kill them in open world or in warzones, I dont even know WHO i killed because I dont bother even looking at their names because it doesn't matter.

This game HAS NO COMMUNITY......Im all for cross-server pvp
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Jumpchan's Avatar


Jumpchan
02.07.2013 , 09:51 AM | #3
this games pvp is based around 8 v 8

you cannot lower the number it will make people impossible to kill.
make it puggable and dice it all together
they have made it so there is no reason to play ranked other then to be competive ie trade coms + ewh being a total fix of what 5 main stat - 8 end - 3 sub stat - 2 sub stat per main piece.. hardly nescessary

while i agree its ******** that its classist to the degree where only the easist classes to play are generally accepted
i mean nobody can say bubble pyro smash or op heals even requires an ounce of brain power.

bioware simply have dug themselves into a deep and frankly, horrible hole with no way out but to decrease the time to kill even further by buffing everyone.

most of this is due to everyone being massive whingers about nerfs

but by the looks of the expansion leak everyones just going to get completely raped anyway

so who gives a whoop about balance the games pvp is rooted the pve is too easy to the point they have to nerf the operations cause to many people are keyboard turners and mouse clickers

find ranked too hard? you dont need to do it! problem solved, im sure most of the best teams could roll 8 shadows and still rape 3/4 of the others
ranked is for the hardcore. 4 man premades are for the casuals
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V-Serp's Avatar


V-Serp
02.07.2013 , 09:52 AM | #4
I think 10-49 should be normal WZs, and then 50 should be RWZs with the only difference being you can queue an 8 man group up if you wanted, otherwise you could queue solo or queue any number of players and the system would just fill in the rest.

10-49 maybe should be everyone solo queues and there is no group queue. There should also be no comm cap at all in this game, and no valor or level requirement to purchase any gear. That way when you do hit 50 you have your gear and just man up and either form a group of your own or start facing groups without a group yourself.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.07.2013 , 09:57 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by SOULCASTER View Post
I'm not sure why bioware thinks the cross-server would kill the community. We can't even talk to the other faction on our own servers. When I kill them in open world or in warzones, I dont even know WHO i killed because I dont bother even looking at their names because it doesn't matter.

This game HAS NO COMMUNITY......Im all for cross-server pvp
SO FREAKING TRUE!!!! I agree with everything.
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tekhiun's Avatar


tekhiun
02.07.2013 , 09:57 AM | #6
You can't compare pve and pvp progression at all. By definition pvp will always be more dynamic ( this sentence sums up all your points) . If you plan on starting a ranked team you should know and expect to lose a lot until you get the experience and learn strategies ,setups and how to counter these setups.

The best thing you can do is queue up do your best and learn from your mistakes. Try to see why did you lose , the reasons can be gear , skill , tactics or team composition . If you can't do that or don't have the time to do it then you shouldn't do RWZ at all or at least expect to win a match. That's how life works, people that are dedicated succeed, people that don't put the effort will most likely fail.

Furthermore BW has catered to casual players quite a lot regarding pvp. Giving out incredible easy to play classes ( pyro pt and smashers). They also give out basically free gear , which you can get with little effort compared to how it was before.

If you want casual , stick to normal wz and story mode ops.
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.07.2013 , 09:58 AM | #7
I think the problem is just the lack of teams. Its discouraging for new teams when they queue and face the best teams on the server and get rolled, they usually stop queuing all together. They need cross server with an actual matchmaking, I am not sure if they even have one now but if they did it does not work when there are only three teams in the queue you are going to face both of them regardless of your teams ranking.

DharmaPolice's Avatar


DharmaPolice
02.07.2013 , 10:03 AM | #8
How would people co-operate via voice chat if there were two four man teams?
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Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
02.07.2013 , 10:09 AM | #9
1. X-server, hell yes. I remember that "community killer" bit from a while back and still disagree with it. It sounds good, but didn't reflect reality that the communities to be preserved were going extinct anyway. RWZ teams from different servers being able to face off? Sounds like more of a community builder to me than current state.


2. If # 1 was implemented wouldn't the perceived need for 4-mans be moot?
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TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
02.07.2013 , 10:22 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I think the problem is just the lack of teams. Its discouraging for new teams when they queue and face the best teams on the server and get rolled, they usually stop queuing all together. They need cross server with an actual matchmaking, I am not sure if they even have one now but if they did it does not work when there are only three teams in the queue you are going to face both of them regardless of your teams ranking.
/agree

There closing door for any new team, cuz for example on our server we have 6-8 teams which playing together monthes and monthes and simply destroy every new team every time. Its really not fun for good players, which individually quite good, but dont play together as 8-man one team before...
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