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How do you measure if you are getting "better"?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
How do you measure if you are getting "better"?

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
02.06.2013 , 03:26 PM | #11
When you start getting more MVPs but it is not definitive.

The question is kinda silly,you are getting better when you are successful at certain things that you just did and feel good about and you weren't able to do before.For example holding grass for enough time againts 2,3, people till reinforcements arrive.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
02.06.2013 , 03:34 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
I suppose the definition of "better" might be part of this question. Having seen several posts about how all the various parts of the scoreboard are next-to-useless numbers for actually measuring how good a player is at "warzoning", it got me wondering... how do you tell if you are getting better at warzone-PvP? I guess if you go with premades, you can go into ranked matches, and tell as a team. But what about individually?

I'd like to think I could "just tell" by how I fare (fair?) in individual melees in the WZ. But they are so varied. Last night, as an example, I played about 6 WZs. They were all so lopsided. For 4 of them my team was getting crushed by the proverbial premades. My numbers, and everyone elses, were dismal. Felt like I melted in any fight I was in. Then the other two were completely the opposite. We melted anyone who dared to show their ugly imperial head.

I guess since the final game I played was one where I was a melter instead of a melt-ee, that must mean I suddenly got awesome at this game! Right?
I hate to say it but stats are a good start.... some will disagree but it does give indication that you understand your class and it's abilities. So the scoreboard CAN be some indication.

Also, team work... as a tank or healer are you supporting your class or playing the role for your own survival?

I had a guy rage on me in regs for being a noob because we rolled them and apparently I was a p**** for stacking healers on our team... IDK even know where to start but anyways... my point. I LOL'd at him at the end because he literally had 45K damage and 450 prot... no, I'm not missing any zeros, as a PT tank. Clearly a player who rolled a tank just so he didn't die as often... 450 prot could be done by doing a single target taunt on a healer who accidentally tapped his basic attack. So, be for your team more and for yourself less... Don't be this guy.

Even in a regaular war zone with random players... this is in the end a team game. As a carnage marauder for example... many would look at it as just a DPS job... kill stuff and move on. I look at how it can help the team in multiple ways, for example... is my predation up when we need to rotate, making it easier for my healers to kite by peeling for them and keeping attackers rooted. Things like that get over looked but it's that kind of team play that makes good players. The list can go on and on but that's jsut to give you an idea to look outside of the box.

Huttball for example... are you apart of carrying the ball, controlling mid? Or are you just attacking anything that moves?

More often than not, wins go to better team work and not individual skill. Not that individual skill isn't very important... but it doesn't make a good player. There needs to be a happy medium for the two.

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
02.06.2013 , 03:47 PM | #13
For me, things just start to slow down more and then from there, I start to realize when I missed a chance to do this move, or if I was attacking someone right as a teammate mezed them (sometimes, you are at a point of no return and can't stop it, but you learn to understand when that is going to make sense and watch out for it). It then just becomes a matter of time where you see individually things that you left on the table.

When I first started, it was run back in and start attacking right away. Would pick up good numbers, but how many times I was running into a 2 or more vs 1 was ridiculous. So I learned to try to anticipate and play as a teammate rather than the solo hero. Still think I could do better.

Another example is, I see my stealth buddy running next to me toward a guarded node, as much as I want to engage and get us in a 2 v 2, I learned I can provide a great decoy sometimes and draw the other team off to attack me. I understand when I as a stealther might be the best guard available. I look for my healers and do anything I can to buy them time or keep someone off them.

Another thing I noticed getting better at is I will use a stun that doesn't fill resolve. If they break it with less than full, I hit them with another stun or mezz and they are stuck. Understanding that helps you understand when to use your breaker. You also need to figure out that just throwing stuns randomy on people are bad in some situations, like someone carrying the Hutt Ball. Other times, waiting for their white bar to go down before trying to use a stun or mezz is a good idea as to not waste a stun. Watching that resolve bar is a good idea in general.

There's so many things. I guess the important part was in the beginning about the game slowing down for you. The more comfortable you are with the class you are playing, you will just know when you screwed up and use that to learn from it even if it worked out.
Technohic - Sniper | Techno-Hic - Gunslinger | Cihonhcet - Scoundrel
Karnrage - Assassin | Egarnrak - Sage
Techen - Merc | Nehcet - Vanguard | Carnrage - Marauder | Egarnrac - Guardian
POT5

Helig's Avatar


Helig
02.06.2013 , 03:58 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
I suppose the definition of "better" might be part of this question. Having seen several posts about how all the various parts of the scoreboard are next-to-useless numbers for actually measuring how good a player is at "warzoning", it got me wondering... how do you tell if you are getting better at warzone-PvP? I guess if you go with premades, you can go into ranked matches, and tell as a team. But what about individually?

I'd like to think I could "just tell" by how I fare (fair?) in individual melees in the WZ. But they are so varied. Last night, as an example, I played about 6 WZs. They were all so lopsided. For 4 of them my team was getting crushed by the proverbial premades. My numbers, and everyone elses, were dismal. Felt like I melted in any fight I was in. Then the other two were completely the opposite. We melted anyone who dared to show their ugly imperial head.

I guess since the final game I played was one where I was a melter instead of a melt-ee, that must mean I suddenly got awesome at this game! Right?
Short answer - situational awareness.

Long answer - as you grow as a player, you'll start noticing that a lot of things you had to think about specifically become reflexive. Using skills, scanning area, pinpointing enemies and enemy types, assessing threats, adjusting own position to minimize your personal exposure and to maximize your own threat zone.

You'll start zooming the camera in and out on reflex at certain map spots, you'll turn camera around corners, you'll travel the safest, least exposed paths in warzones, you'll stop thinking about what skill are you going to use next, you will interrupt what needs to be interrupted, and nothing else, you'll be one step ahead of the enemy with your countermeasures.

You will want to reconfigure your UI multiple times. You will want to rebind your keys and find new efficient keybinding combinations and setups. Don't be afraid to strip everything down and build a new setup from scratch.

And, finally, you'll notice that you grow as a player when you stop feeling frustration over small things. You'll learn to be efficient and have fun by playing smart, even if your entire team is composed of the most awful of bads.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
02.06.2013 , 04:01 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Short answer - situational awareness.
.
This is a good short version of everything said here... while understanding your class and putting up some numbers factors into it... I know many people who can put up insane numbers but are considered bad players by most.

Crerin's Avatar


Crerin
02.06.2013 , 05:10 PM | #16
IMO, First, fully understand your class. Then start to understand every other class and how you can counter each of them while they are trying to do their job.
Self- critique and being able to take criticism I believe makes for the best players, and the want to always improve.
just understanding the role of your class, what makes you better then every other person who plays your class?
IE: A bubble sorc
Did I keep everyone's bubble up, while being attacked?
Did I not redo the bubble before the stun was popped? (so I could get 2x bubbles per person as soon as their first is done)
Did I use my pulls to advance my team to the right area or to save them from being FF'd?
Did I use my overload almost every time it was off CD, so that I basically controlled the enemy's movement for 6 out of every 20s?
Did I push my overload to the highest reach/distance it can go? (IE if i am knocked off near the 2nd fire on the pit, did i jump back towards the fire while overloading to knock the enemys off?)
Am I using all of my escapes / pots to the maximum efficiency?
Am I constantly watching to LOS people and still keep my team alive?


Drilling every small thing into your own head will make you better than others.
Krer 50 Op
Krerin 50 Sorc
Rin 50 Mara

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
02.06.2013 , 06:51 PM | #17
Wow, thanks for all the great replies! You've all given me so many things to think about!

I play a shadow tank (on POT5 - Imagynary). I've traditionally been the solo guard at the "off" node, and I think I do fairly well there. Got ninja capped early in my career and learned my lesson about not being distracted. I probably should focus on learning the other classes, and then actually paying attention to the class I'm fighting. I think that might be my biggest blind spot, since I at least think about most of the other stuff mentioned once in a while. Still, so much to remember... throw those taunts out, swap guard, CC things attacking healers, stop the cap, don't fill the resolve of the ball carrier, keep track of balance of numbers, watch for "inc" calls, learn rotations better so I'm not constantly trying to attack with an ability on CD, stop trying to use CC on people with full resolve bars... sorry, my head is spinning now.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
02.07.2013 , 03:23 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
When you start getting more MVPs but it is not definitive.

The question is kinda silly,you are getting better when you are successful at certain things that you just did and feel good about and you weren't able to do before.For example holding grass for enough time againts 2,3, people till reinforcements arrive.
MVP's, don't think so, found that the more you try to do good (like planting and stuff) you don't get MVPs.. people go for numbers when voting, either top healing, top medals or top damage. (or special preferences like that guy who always comes first when I call ics)
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
02.07.2013 , 03:40 AM | #19
MVP votes don't indicate any more than damage heals or objective points. Often people just vote for their guildies or group members regardless of the outcome.
Huttball is an example of a warzone where you can be the biggest contributor to your team's victory and have low damage/heals and few objective points, by means of firepulls/friendly pulls/KB off platforms/goal assists/ccing enemies on your carrier/rooting enemies/predation/etc.

I'd say any time you go into a game and learn something, it's a sign you're getting better. If you aren't learning anything, you're probably not improving much. Try something new in that case.
Plaje - 55 Assassin Sorcheals - 55 Sorcerer
TheHulkk - 55 Juggernaut Riksa - 55 Marauder
Ophealing - 55 Operative Lolsniper - 55 Sniper
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Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
02.07.2013 , 06:19 AM | #20
One thing I compare in warzones is Killing blows/deaths. I aim for a 2:1 or better ratio. As DPS I need to be doing the killing for any healers or tanks who are performing their own non-lethal roles.
It's a small world and it smells funny, I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money.
Ilmarinen 55 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)