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PUG requirements for raiding


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.06.2013 , 11:21 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
This is my marauder alts gear right now, and I've also cleared every boss in the game (except EC NiM kephess) on my main. Do you think he's not geared enough for SM ops? How about after I get the 2 might hilt 27's I'm planning to get crafted for him, which would still put him under 1800 strength?
I would hazard a guess that you're probably a skilled player who is very familiar with the fights. This is based on your saying that you've progressed mostly through NM EC (and everything else). Also, I'm pretty sure the others in your raid group probably have better gear than you do.

Anyway, a very skilled player doesn't need ideal BiS. However, when you're filling a pug slot, with an unknown variable of how good someone is, it's safer to err on the side of caution.

My own raid group is mostly Dread Guard and we're still progressing on NM EC. The only way we'd bring someone geared like yourself is if someone knew the player personally and was willing to vouch for their skill.

Edit: I also fiddled more with AMR profiles for Marauders/Sentinels. Their gearing seems weird to me. Stock Columi gear on a Marauder has vastly less main stat than other classes.

steave's Avatar


steave
02.06.2013 , 11:32 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I would hazard a guess that you're probably a skilled player who is very familiar with the fights. This is based on your saying that you've progressed mostly through NM EC (and everything else). Also, I'm pretty sure the others in your raid group probably have better gear than you do.

Anyway, a very skilled player doesn't need ideal BiS. However, when you're filling a pug slot, with an unknown variable of how good someone is, it's safer to err on the side of caution.

My own raid group is mostly Dread Guard and we're still progressing on NM EC. The only way we'd bring someone geared like yourself is if someone knew the player personally and was willing to vouch for their skill.

Edit: I also fiddled more with AMR profiles for Marauders/Sentinels. Their gearing seems weird to me. Stock Columi gear on a Marauder has vastly less main stat than other classes.
You misunderstand, I don't bring that char to serious raids - as mentioned, that's my alt. My main is a powertech with BiS gear for both tanking and dps. I simply mention it to point out the absurdity of someone geared in full rakata-campaign (including the hilts, when I get around to crafting those - as mentioned that char would still be below the limit with 2 might 27 hilts) and augmented with way more experience than needed to clear it would be denied based on that arbitrary cut off.
That char definitely has a lot of work left to do on it, both when it comes to mod level (for hilts and armorings in bracers+belt) and optimization - but it's much more than is needed for a SM.

Viridiana's Avatar


Viridiana
02.06.2013 , 12:21 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
This is my marauder alts gear right now, and I've also cleared every boss in the game (except EC NiM kephess) on my main. Do you think he's not geared enough for SM ops? How about after I get the 2 might hilt 27's I'm planning to get crafted for him, which would still put him under 1800 strength?
With some stat optimization you would be just fine on the 1800, like the 104% accuracy should be dropped down in favor of a different stat, better than pre-columi hilts, moddable belt and bracers rather than the DG pieces, also the focus on power doesn't look like it is helping your wpn dmg, but that could be because of the hilts as i'm thinking you aren't using tank hilts from pre-columi gear.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.06.2013 , 12:41 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
You misunderstand, I don't bring that char to serious raids - as mentioned, that's my alt. My main is a powertech with BiS gear for both tanking and dps. I simply mention it to point out the absurdity of someone geared in full rakata-campaign (including the hilts, when I get around to crafting those - as mentioned that char would still be below the limit with 2 might 27 hilts) and augmented with way more experience than needed to clear it would be denied based on that arbitrary cut off.
That char definitely has a lot of work left to do on it, both when it comes to mod level (for hilts and armorings in bracers+belt) and optimization - but it's much more than is needed for a SM.
Ahhh you're right, I misread your original post.

Incidentally, if one is trying to "gate" by main stat, the JW/SW seems to get the short end of the stick.

A stock Columi Commando has > 1650 main stat.
A stock Columi Gunslinger has > 1700 main stat.
A stock Columi Sage has > 1650 main stat.
A stock Columi Sentinel has > 1500 main stat.

Then for poops n giggles I put a Campaign geared Marauder together: AMR

I didn't spend much time optimizing it, I just picked all the high-strength pieces and swapped any lettered mods. But this BH/Campaign build only has 1687 strength. Weird.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
02.06.2013 , 12:45 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
but it's much more than is needed for a SM.
No one is disagreeing with that, but no matter what arbitrary number you use it is going to leave out players more than capable of pulling off the content. At the same time, no matter what number you choice you are going to pull some players that will not be able to pull off the content. Personally 1800 seems high to me, but I am using that number while thinking about plugging someone in my group or into my guild.

Personally I would look at if they meet the minimum requirement for the ops and then look to see if they have worked at gear to make it better, do they have proper implant, ear, relics and do they have augments (and the proper ones for their class). If it appears that they work at it and are not just trying to get carried to gear, then I am more than willing for them to come. So going by your build on your alt, compared to my alt and considering my group, I would be more than willing to take you on anything up to HM EC, provided you took the offhand at the tanks and went back to fleet to get saber and put it in you mainhand). Your stats are very comparable to my alt and I had no problems with HM EC. We just have a difference of opinion on stacking main or power.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
02.06.2013 , 12:53 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
You misunderstand, I don't bring that char to serious raids - as mentioned, that's my alt. My main is a powertech with BiS gear for both tanking and dps. I simply mention it to point out the absurdity of someone geared in full rakata-campaign (including the hilts, when I get around to crafting those - as mentioned that char would still be below the limit with 2 might 27 hilts) and augmented with way more experience than needed to clear it would be denied based on that arbitrary cut off.
That char definitely has a lot of work left to do on it, both when it comes to mod level (for hilts and armorings in bracers+belt) and optimization - but it's much more than is needed for a SM.
Or you can switch the Rakata stim to an exotech and be over 1800 with those hilts your speaking of... even if you didnt switch your stim you'd have 1798...

I'm sure if you messaged the OP when he was looking for 1800 main stat DPS and told him hey i only got 1750 but that because im a mara fully augmented in power, im sure an invite would be coming... not to mention your a mara that's probably all you'd have to say.

steave's Avatar


steave
02.06.2013 , 05:07 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Viridiana View Post
With some stat optimization you would be just fine on the 1800, like the 104% accuracy should be dropped down in favor of a different stat, better than pre-columi hilts, moddable belt and bracers rather than the DG pieces, also the focus on power doesn't look like it is helping your wpn dmg, but that could be because of the hilts as i'm thinking you aren't using tank hilts from pre-columi gear.
Yes of course that character isn't perfect - accuracy need to be swapped for surge, crit for power and hilts need to be upgraded - I already said that though. That's still more than enough gear to carry others rather than require carrying.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Ahhh you're right, I misread your original post.

Incidentally, if one is trying to "gate" by main stat, the JW/SW seems to get the short end of the stick.

A stock Columi Commando has > 1650 main stat.
A stock Columi Gunslinger has > 1700 main stat.
A stock Columi Sage has > 1650 main stat.
A stock Columi Sentinel has > 1500 main stat.

Then for poops n giggles I put a Campaign geared Marauder together: AMR

I didn't spend much time optimizing it, I just picked all the high-strength pieces and swapped any lettered mods. But this BH/Campaign build only has 1687 strength. Weird.
Yeah, and sents/marauders are one of the highest DPS classes out there despite that, before even considering the bloodthirsts making everyone better so excluding them is a pretty bad idea.

Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
No one is disagreeing with that, but no matter what arbitrary number you use it is going to leave out players more than capable of pulling off the content. At the same time, no matter what number you choice you are going to pull some players that will not be able to pull off the content. Personally 1800 seems high to me, but I am using that number while thinking about plugging someone in my group or into my guild.
Yeah, hence why it shouldn't be based on an arbitrary number - talk to the person and ask how they're geared, so pretty much what you yourself suggest that you'd do.

Infalliable's Avatar


Infalliable
02.07.2013 , 07:31 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Ahhh you're right, I misread your original post.

Incidentally, if one is trying to "gate" by main stat, the JW/SW seems to get the short end of the stick.

A stock Columi Commando has > 1650 main stat.
A stock Columi Gunslinger has > 1700 main stat.
A stock Columi Sage has > 1650 main stat.
A stock Columi Sentinel has > 1500 main stat.

Then for poops n giggles I put a Campaign geared Marauder together: AMR

I didn't spend much time optimizing it, I just picked all the high-strength pieces and swapped any lettered mods. But this BH/Campaign build only has 1687 strength. Weird.
Sents/Maruaders do not have the +X% mainstat talent in the skill trees. That is a main difference.

Gunslinger/snipers, for example, get +9% and it's trivial to get that skill in any build

mcslack's Avatar


mcslack
02.07.2013 , 08:28 AM | #49
Im new to the Ops and when I see a Leader canvas for what I can do(SM/Hm KP/EV), I make it clear in my whisper that ive got full Columi/ Augs etc. . Personnaly I feel it an honor to get invited with exp peeps and I dont wana waste the leaders time by not giving ur info up front. I also tell them that I dont mind dropping from group if they feel Im not up to par. A little forthought and HONESTY goes a long way with leaders and ive never been denied even when I was a fresh 50 that couldnt handle KP HM but they let me in anyway.
The raid leader is guna know real quick by specing the troups if someone is lying or not up to the task. I geuss what im sayin inregards to PUG reuirements is that its really up to the raid Boss.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
02.07.2013 , 08:34 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
Yeah, hence why it shouldn't be based on an arbitrary number - talk to the person and ask how they're geared, so pretty much what you yourself suggest that you'd do.
So instead of an arbitrary number, you just want raid leaders to use some other arbitrary criteria? While it is a little more personal, it still suffers the same problem in that it will exclude people that could be an benefit to the group and it will include some that will have to be carried. It is just a nicer way, but slower way get to some meaningless minimum standard.