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Shadow Tank @ Lost Island


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.05.2013 , 06:52 PM | #41
@Kabolt, reading from the top of the thread (I came late the party) don't you think Mind Control would better be saved for later in the fight?

When I got my Shadow Tank to 50 and started doing end-game, I fiddled around with a number of different rotations, and I felt that I was able to grab aggro hard and fast in the beginning of the fight with my regular abilities, and I saved the aoe taunt for those times when dps weren't picking up adds and started after the healer.

It just seems a waste to use it so early when the threat tables on each mob are so low that the +30% threat is meaningless.

Kabolt's Avatar


Kabolt
02.05.2013 , 09:23 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
@Kabolt, reading from the top of the thread (I came late the party) don't you think Mind Control would better be saved for later in the fight?

When I got my Shadow Tank to 50 and started doing end-game, I fiddled around with a number of different rotations, and I felt that I was able to grab aggro hard and fast in the beginning of the fight with my regular abilities, and I saved the aoe taunt for those times when dps weren't picking up adds and started after the healer.

It just seems a waste to use it so early when the threat tables on each mob are so low that the +30% threat is meaningless.
To be honest you don't even need MC in this fight, the fight should only take about 30 seconds, The fastest I have seen it done is about 10 seconds, the slowest about a minute.
A shadow can get aggro in about 3 seconds without using taunts and keep it. So if you don't wish to use it, or keep it till later that's entirely up to you.

The most important thing is to feel comfortable and relaxed. Once you've cleared this boss a few times you will find your rotations and timings changing anyway, because you'll see the fight with different eye's if you get my drift.

Personally I feel MC and mass taunt are too slow, by the time you cast it, and the mob or add turns towards you, for me this feels like a life time, it seems to take forever, and of course they always take that last swing at the healer.

So even if I didn't use it in the beginning, I wouldn't really use it later unless I really had no choice, I'd be more inclined to just pull the add to me followed by a double strike and they are all your.

Try it different ways, with different bosses, the good thing about shadow tanks is everything about them generates threat.

For me using it early allows to to take my time, I can check the position of the group, see if they have the adds, take out an add myself if need be, move the boss, and not be put under any pressure during this time. I feel in control.

Also when playing with people I don't know I always just ask them in chat if they could take down the adds first plz

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.05.2013 , 09:46 PM | #43
@Kabolt, fair enough, although I guess that's pretty specific to that one encounter.

I was more referring to fights in general, especially ones with lots of mobs. The opening fight in FE comes to mind. I've pugged that fight a lot as a dps, as a healer, and as a tank. My personal takeway was that I always wanted to save my taunts for later.

A shadow tank has strong aoe opening as far as pulling aggro, but there are a lot of mobs to deal with. As a healer, I've been put in a bad way MANY times during that fight. One or two hits before the tank pulls the mob back isn't a problem. Being chased by one of the Sith while three ranged mobs firing at me from the back IS.

Sure, you can point fingers at the dps, but if your taunts aren't on CD, you've got the perfect tool to fix the situation.

I would be hard pressed to recommend to new Shadow tanks to use the taunt at the beginning of any fight. I'm glad it works out for you, but generally speaking, taunts are such a valuable tool in the Shadow's repertoire that in almost every case it is better served later on.

Kabolt's Avatar


Kabolt
02.06.2013 , 07:32 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
@Kabolt, fair enough, although I guess that's pretty specific to that one encounter.
Exactly, every fight is different.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I was more referring to fights in general, especially ones with lots of mobs. The opening fight in FE comes to mind. I've pugged that fight a lot as a dps, as a healer, and as a tank. My personal takeway was that I always wanted to save my taunts for later.
Best to ask your group to mark there own CC, that way you know who has what, personally I never start a trash fight with a taunt. Also I often just ask the group to wait till I start the fight, doesn't always work but can help.

I like to CC a sith, then I'll move back 20+ meters and pull the sith to me, that's him out of the fight for a whole minute, usually the whole fight. Then moving into the group while cloaked will start the fight.
At this point just let the group dictate the fight, if they start an aoe attack, just use mass taunt to pull the mobs into the circle. If they start melee attacks, take a second to watch which droids if they are not stunned attack the dps, and intervene, all you have to do is raise your threat level, you have ST, FB, Pro and (TKT- only use every 3 stack of HS ) or it's wasted and these are your ranged weapons. The saber attacks have a 4m range on them, so you don't need to be right beside your target.

As a rule, or in my opinion, you should always start with the biggest threat, usually a droid, always turn the droid from the group, if the other droid is loose, stun or MC him, switching from target to target does not loose you aggro.

I order to complete your rotations correctly, you do not need to be focused on one target, you can use Pro on one target and ST on another, while using FB on your primary target, the tab key is your friend here.
I love to be cheeky, if an add moves toward the healer, I'll wait till he gets there, then pull him back, depending what's on CD I'll often just let them start to move back to the healer, then throw a couple of boulders at the back of his head, It always hurts them and fun to watch.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
A shadow tank has strong aoe opening as far as pulling aggro, but there are a lot of mobs to deal with. As a healer, I've been put in a bad way MANY times during that fight. One or two hits before the tank pulls the mob back isn't a problem. Being chased by one of the Sith while three ranged mobs firing at me from the back IS.
Every fight is different, The healer in my book should always take priority, in extreme cases, I have seen myself moving to the healers side to dps and pull the adds off the healer, but that's really bad crowd control, unless you pull more than one group at a time, things should never get that bad.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Sure, you can point fingers at the dps, but if your taunts aren't on CD, you've got the perfect tool to fix the situation.

I would be hard pressed to recommend to new Shadow tanks to use the taunt at the beginning of any fight. I'm glad it works out for you, but generally speaking, taunts are such a valuable tool in the Shadow's repertoire that in almost every case it is better served later on.
I would always recommend that they try different things, my build is different from yours and the problem with new tanks is the build is continually changing, so you need to learn what works best for yourself in a given situation. and progress with that.

Learn and understand your own limitations, not others.

anwg's Avatar


anwg
02.06.2013 , 07:47 AM | #45
Get the warhero weapon and shield, they are better than Tionese.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
02.06.2013 , 07:49 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Kabolt View Post
I would always recommend that they try different things, my build is different from yours and the problem with new tanks is the build is continually changing, so you need to learn what works best for yourself in a given situation. and progress with that.

Learn and understand your own limitations, not others.
Finally something making sense. But I usualy have a few rules against packs.
-I take the big ones and focus one of them, keeping the others away from the healer with my AOE's.
-The DPS are killing the weaker ones alone.
-If a DPS attacks a big one I'm not focusing : I'll let him tank. I will not hold his hand just because he can't focus the good mob.
-Mass mind control is useful when your team decides to use many AOE's, or when a pack spawn during a boss fight and are aiming your healer.

Against bosses :
-I NEVER ASK MY DPS TO HOLD ON, AND I WILL NEVER ASK THEM TO. Well, to be honest there is a single situation where I can ask them to give me a few seconds : when the JM spawns (WH fight in TFB HM), I ask them to not attack the JM untill I'm next to a wall. Mostly because I can't hit him during a few seconds.

Rahizm's Avatar


Rahizm
02.06.2013 , 09:18 AM | #47
OP back again here.
I managed to get some LI runs going (well aiming for my weap but no success :P) and used the advice here...

Basically the keep strafing part. I noticed that, even when there was NO<- yellow circle under my feet, I did receive damage from eruptions underneath. I guess the first boss is bugged when it comes to that part?..

Quote: Originally Posted by lpope View Post
It sounds like you are talking about the Shaclaw. If that is the case, I suspect the issue is that you got hit by a graphical bug where you are actually standing in a invisible yellow circle. You take damage as though you are in one but low and behold it's not there
Guess the first person commenting on that bug was right. In one of the last fights I did in the last 2 days, one of the party members died by that damage while not standing in yellow circles as I paid attention to everyone in that fight. I was like waddafuh. I kept strafing and pretending that eruptions without yellow circles were just those yellow circles and it was as if I didn't even need a heal.

On the subject of using Mind Control.. I do not use it unless I am losing aggro (like someone here said Shadow Tanks have great threat control and I don't have problems with it) or if I know a boss does AOE damage.

-Sirus-'s Avatar


-Sirus-
02.06.2013 , 01:27 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Kabolt View Post

Forgot about that actually, you could also try this, works for me.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/upload
LOL. Because the best way to avoid using a combat log parser is obviously to use a combat log parser.