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PvP Healing Class?


Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.04.2013 , 05:11 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Satedbuffalo View Post
I'm not sure you're right about guard mechanics. (Actually, it's more than I hope you're not right and suspect you are.)
There was a thread a 1-2 months back about someone that finally went and did a reasonably comprehensive experiment to determine exactly what Guard does. The poster found that it was the base damage that was separated (since the two took different amounts of damage; the poster also "undid" the math and found that it only added up when you split the damage of the incoming attack into 2 separate attack "packets" with 50% of the baseline damage) and that attack type was maintained such as I explained before (the Guarding tank had 3 distinct ranges of incoming damage for the M/R attacks: more than normal for a crit, normal for a hit, and substantially less than normal for a shield). I believe that the poster also mentioned that the logs never mentioned that the redirected damage was the source of a relevant attack or not and that the only way to suss out the Guard/crit/hit was to look at the listed damage and dodges/resists had to be seen by the disparity in number of times damage was taken (essentially, Guard just says "damage taken" and doesn't even say anything when the attack is dodged by the tank).

Quote:
I'd understood that when guard is active it adds a 5% damage reduction to the affected player
There's something that a lot of people don't realize about Guard and that the 5% DR isn't additive DR (meaning it's added to an existing number like your K/E and I/E DR) and is instead mutliplicative DR (meaning that you simply multiply what you would have taken if Guard were not present by .95 in order to determine how much you actually take). As such, the 5% is really *really* hard to actually notice. 5% additive is a *lot*; 5% multiplicative is... somewhat less so.

Quote:
I think you're wrong that a properly played sage is less able to disengage, although I definitely agree that the commando is lacking there.
It helps that Scoundrels have a hard disengage in the form of Disappearing Act, which Sages do not have. Sages have excellent mobility (they've still got the worst mobile healing imo, thanks to the bubble lockout) and control, but it's not the same as the ability to disengage: after you use Force Speed or Force Wave, melee characters can still use their gap closers on you (I always laugh when a Sorc attempts to gank me in world PvP, proceeds to get his face trod in, and then attempts to flee only to get locked down by my using Force Speed, Force Pull, stuns, etc.) so it's not as if you're really able to reliably guarantee a successful disengagement. If you have someone else playing interference, you can often manage to get away with it, but most people can do so if they have a buddy playing interference regardless of class.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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Satedbuffalo's Avatar


Satedbuffalo
02.04.2013 , 07:06 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
There was a thread a 1-2 months back about someone that finally went and did a reasonably comprehensive experiment to determine exactly what Guard does. The poster found that it was the base damage that was separated (since the two took different amounts of damage; the poster also "undid" the math and found that it only added up when you split the damage of the incoming attack into 2 separate attack "packets" with 50% of the baseline damage) and that attack type was maintained such as I explained before (the Guarding tank had 3 distinct ranges of incoming damage for the M/R attacks: more than normal for a crit, normal for a hit, and substantially less than normal for a shield). I believe that the poster also mentioned that the logs never mentioned that the redirected damage was the source of a relevant attack or not and that the only way to suss out the Guard/crit/hit was to look at the listed damage and dodges/resists had to be seen by the disparity in number of times damage was taken (essentially, Guard just says "damage taken" and doesn't even say anything when the attack is dodged by the tank).
That...is the dumbest way they could've set up those mechanics. Grar.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.04.2013 , 08:22 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Satedbuffalo View Post
That...is the dumbest way they could've set up those mechanics. Grar.
It actually makes a lot of sense, imo, since it allows a tank to Guard a target, shunting damage off of their ally without rendering their tank stats meaningless. The problem, as I see it, is actually in the programmatic complexity of doing such (my guess would be that it is accomplished by applying 50% outright DR to the Guarded target and Guard causing the Guarded player to clone all attacks and direct them at the Guarding tank since Guard damage is considered damage from a player). It's an excellent execution, imo, if a bit strange for most players to cogitate, but it makes the most sense from an applicable/balance standpoint.
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GHoppa's Avatar


GHoppa
02.05.2013 , 04:20 AM | #14
Satedbuffalo,

It was me who began the post on PvP Guard damage mitagation a month or so back, and some wonderful people did tests of their own. Go look it up in the tanking forums section, its a good read. IIRC, the multiplicative thing your going on about is wrong. Their results proved you take 5% off the initial raw damage dealt, then split it into 2 even parts, the target deals with 1 part, the tank the other. All tank stats including defense/shield/abosrb as well as mitigation will reduce tank damage.

To OP:

Comm/Merc heals can be viable for most PvP situations if you are a great player, but due to their complete lack of mobility (both in and out of healing) and lack of utility, are not viable for RWZ at this time. It is a rarity that you ever see one in RWZ. I can't remember it happening to me in a while.

People can choose to ignore skill trees and things when they say one is a better healer than the other. Thats fine. The fact remains, almost every RWZ team i have ran, played in, or watched play has included 1 sage and 1 scoundrel for heals. They are both completely viable, and both viewed as nessecary, especially the sage with bubble stuns in the current metagame. (And lets face it, the metagame here changes extremely slowly, we aren't expecting any changes for months until the expansion.)

Also, i will point you to the Highest PvP records thread, where currently a Sage/Sorc holds the record No.1 highest HPS in game.

Krieger-'s Avatar


Krieger-
02.07.2013 , 09:45 PM | #15
Good advice and thanks for the thoughts.

I run usually 450-600k Heals on my merc, and do a pretty good job with a scoundrel by my side. So i feel like they are just as viable in PVP
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Keizak's Avatar


Keizak
02.12.2013 , 06:28 PM | #16
This is some good info as I am just starting out to decide between a scoundrel and a sorcerer myself. All I really want to do is PVP heal, and from what I have read so far and noticed in games, the scoundrel/operative does seem to be able to take a beating and be more difficult to kill. Still haven't made up my mind yet which one to stick to
Toons: 50 Sith Assassin (Darkness/Madness hybrid)), 50 Cyborg Mercenary (Bodyguard), 50 Sith Marauder (Carnage), 50 Ratattaki Sniper (Lethality), 50 Sith Vanguard (Shield Specialist/Tactics hybrid), 50 Sith Sorcerer (Corruption/Lightning hybrid), almost lvl 50 Jedi Guardian (Defense).