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EC HM guild run - FB & SC problem we can't solve

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
EC HM guild run - FB & SC problem we can't solve

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
02.04.2013 , 03:11 PM | #1
Hey, I'm from awesome casual raiding guild, and right now our progression ends on Zron and Toth HM. On SC & FB encounter we seem to have some kind of problem which prevents us from killing them. I will try to describe it and hope someone can explain it to me and tell how we can avoid it happening.

We are following a strategy studied by our leader, I don't have link to the exact guide but here is what happens:

Encounter begins. Everyone except one healer gets on top of the bosses (2 DPS and a healer on FB and 2 DPS on SC). The healer running around on the ground takes care of all the attacks leading to the ground, cleanses himself of the yellow circle, and seems to survive just well. Double Destruction happens without any unexpected trouble.
Incinerate Armor hits, tanks switch correctly. Strange thing happening soon. No aggro issues, when SC starts to cast second Double Destruction. As the SC tank moves to put the debuff on the DPS guys, a Defensive Systems Activate is yelled and a lightning dome falls on the group, resulting with death of usually both DPS. Then shield phase begins correctly but we don't really care because we already know it's a wipe.
If it doesn't happen at the first defensive systems, then we easily follow through advancing stages until we hit that part again and then the dome falls on the DPS guys.

Every time we pray that the dome doesn't hit them, but we can't possibly win that battle by prayers.

How do we ensure that the lightning dome does not fall on the tank and the DPS while sharing Double Destruction debuff? Let me point out again that it is not shield phase yet, so the domes should be falling after the guy who is on the ground. The dome falls exactly at the moment when they yell out "Defensive systems activate!" so there is no real warning, it just happens.

Thanks for any input. Let me note that we are geared properly, everyone at least rakata, most of us grade 61 and I think we are good enough in our roles, unless FB & SC are huge leap above all previous content.

Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
02.04.2013 , 03:22 PM | #2
First - FB and SC are the first real leap in difficulty.

I know there are others that have experienced this problem, I believe my guild did for a little bit. I can make a couple recommendations and perhaps some guesses towards your issue.

I doubt this is the issue but I will throw it out there - is your kiter (the one person on the ground) getting too close to the tanks? If this person gets on the tanks, then the shield can fall on anyone - if he is too close then even if it falls on the ground along the tank, it may cause an issue as the area is somewhat large.

I also recommend pushing the phase before the second DD - this is a largely used strategy and makes the fight significantly easier. The result may be that FB is at 50% when SC reaches sub 20% - you simply need to eat more DDs at this point on SC (maybe 3-4) but it should be significantly easier at this point. To do this you will need one ranged on SC and your healer can eat the other DD ... which brings me to my next suggestion.

I think you should have the healer who is kiting be from the FB side, not the SC side. Generally the SC side takes more damage (from DD) so this should be helpful anyway.

Anyway, I think there are probably more people who have experienced and fixed this bug firsthand, but hope this helps.

mxlm's Avatar


mxlm
02.04.2013 , 03:22 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Slivovidze View Post
most of us grade 61 and I think we are good enough in our roles, unless FB & SC are huge leap above all previous content.
If your dps are in 61 and you're seeing two double destructions per phase, they're underperforming. Put everyone on MOX and see what needs to be improved. If they were doing slightly more damage you wouldn't see the second DD cast and the lightning spear wouldn't drop on the group.

Rawrwafer's Avatar


Rawrwafer
02.04.2013 , 03:30 PM | #4
That spear drops when the dd goes off I believe, to help, have your tank and your dps run to meet each other somewhere in the middle, the spike falls in between your original positions, continue as normal.

MDR_WeedKnight's Avatar


MDR_WeedKnight
02.04.2013 , 03:30 PM | #5
Storm caller tank needs to taunt when defensive systems is cast that will stop the lightning bubble from dropping on the dps and healer.

If the dps get the last hit before defensive systems then a bubble will drop on them in the shield, so the tank can taunt while ds is casting.

mxlm's Avatar


mxlm
02.04.2013 , 03:46 PM | #6
The spear is hitting the group because Defensive Systems is activating while Double Destruction is being cast. This is happening because DPS is low. The best way to fix this is to coax more dps out of the players (including the tanks, probably). If your healers have spare energy and attention, keeping the tanks dotted for the duration of the fight will make a significant difference as well.

If you're unable to eeke more damage out of your group, then you need to do uneven damage to the tanks in order to force the phase change before a second DD is cast. You'll probably run into the hard enrage, but you can cross that bridge when you come to it (and if SC is the only tank left alive, a hard enrage can be healed through for a while).

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
02.04.2013 , 04:07 PM | #7
Do I understand correctly that the Double Destruction gets casted in periodic intervals, while Defensive Systems are set on bosses percentage?

Because I had a little argument with other guy during today's raid and he said that he has done that encounter many times on empire side and that the DD is random. Couldn't argue with that, all my experiences of this encounter come from several wipefests.

If DS are set on boss health levels, what are the milestones for it to trigger, and on which boss?

Furiel's Avatar


Furiel
02.04.2013 , 04:10 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by mxlm View Post
The spear is hitting the group because Defensive Systems is activating while Double Destruction is being cast. This is happening because DPS is low. The best way to fix this is to coax more dps out of the players (including the tanks, probably). If your healers have spare energy and attention, keeping the tanks dotted for the duration of the fight will make a significant difference as well.

If you're unable to eeke more damage out of your group, then you need to do uneven damage to the tanks in order to force the phase change before a second DD is cast. You'll probably run into the hard enrage, but you can cross that bridge when you come to it (and if SC is the only tank left alive, a hard enrage can be healed through for a while).
This.

Couple ways to handle it. 1) Have the SC tank jump down and taunt, this will cause that spire to hit him instead of the DPS. 2) Get your best DPS on SC through the first 80% then switch one to FB for the final 20%. 3) Put 3 DPS on SC to start, have a ranged stand on FB and shoot through the turret (does not cause LoS issues) then move all DPS to FB when SC gets to 10% (since you want SC to die last). I would honestly suggest #3 with your best 2 DPS on FB and one of them being ranged and shooting through to SC. That way you have your best 2 DPS dealing with the 3 add side during shield phases so they can get back on the tanks that much quicker. And more time on target = more damage = less likely to get a second DD and hit enrage.

If you are still consistently getting a second DD each phase then your DPS is too low and you will likely get hard enrage around 7-10% left if you live that long and will probably wipe, or just eek out a victory with only a couple people standing. As a fight it's partially an execution but mostly a DPS check fight so if your DPS are not geared or are underperforming you will struggle with it. If you have the resources get as many of your main raid force 27 hilts and barrels, those will add 25-40 DPS per person on their own due to it pumping up the overall weapon level along with the extra stats and that could get you over the DPS hump.
Furiel Plush
Cardinal and Raid Coordinator of The Church of Alvis

RendValor's Avatar


RendValor
02.04.2013 , 04:11 PM | #9
You need to push more damage on SC so you don't get the second Double Destruction.

Replace your baddie DPSers with decent DPSers and you'll be set
The Trayus Legacy - Prophecy of the Five

AinuKvasir's Avatar


AinuKvasir
02.04.2013 , 04:13 PM | #10
I believe the DD is timed and the DS is every 20% on whichever tank hits it first (which is usually designed to be Stormcaller to make sure that a second DD isn't starting).