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Bubble stun doesn't need a nerf

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bubble stun doesn't need a nerf

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
02.04.2013 , 10:11 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkOnesEye View Post
What if they increase the amount of resolve you get from the stun bubble. Its not nerfing it it per say only applying a more valid affect to the affected. This would also take into affect that Resolve actually was worth anything.
This is probably the most extreme indirect re-nerf in history though. The reason this spec was never a problem before is that running it meant the other team would be at full resolve pretty much non stop. What made this ability relevant was the nerf to resolve. Prior to the 1.4 update, if you had a couple bubbled opponents near you, you would hit full resolve as they all popped. Because of the removal of overlapping stuns, now you still just fill up for the time you are stunned, not going white barred.

Since the stun is not controlled by the caster, there is no way to determine who will get hit by it and having it fill half resolve means that teams will inadvertently be making most melee unable to be CC'd quite often. It would be the same as removing the ability completely because you won't be able to use other abilities to control the enemy when you actually need them.

TL;DR a nice thought, but far worse for sorcs than just making it only work on the caster
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thesadplanet's Avatar


thesadplanet
02.04.2013 , 10:13 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
This is probably the most extreme indirect re-nerf in history though. The reason this spec was never a problem before is that running it meant the other team would be at full resolve pretty much non stop. What made this ability relevant was the nerf to resolve. Prior to the 1.4 update, if you had a couple bubbled opponents near you, you would hit full resolve as they all popped. Because of the removal of overlapping stuns, now you still just fill up for the time you are stunned, not going white barred.

Since the stun is not controlled by the caster, there is no way to determine who will get hit by it and having it fill half resolve means that teams will inadvertently be making most melee unable to be CC'd quite often. It would be the same as removing the ability completely because you won't be able to use other abilities to control the enemy when you actually need them.

TL;DR a nice thought, but far worse for sorcs than just making it only work on the caster
prior to 1.4, the bubble stun was a mez and not a stun, which is the main reason why you didn't see it, at least in my opinion, but the changes to resolve definitely affect the usability of the spec.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
02.04.2013 , 10:15 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by thesadplanet View Post
prior to 1.4, the bubble stun was a mez and not a stun, which is the main reason why you didn't see it, at least in my opinion, but the changes to resolve definitely affect the usability of the spec.
If it were simply the fact that it was a mez, it still would have been utilized effectively by premades and in rated when it started with 1.3. It was not viable, however, until the resolve nerfs in 1.4
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tekhiun's Avatar


tekhiun
02.04.2013 , 10:19 AM | #44
I sort of agree with OP. Bubble stun was inserted to increase the survivaily on their current trees ( lightning / telekinetic ), depending on how they fix that they would need to improve those trees. And yes OP its a dps issue not a healer one, sorc is easy mode healing, we got the best mobility and aoe of all the healer classes.
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MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
02.04.2013 , 10:23 AM | #45
I don't like bubble stun because I should be able to melee someone down without any interruption. It's very annoying to be stunned for a couple seconds when I could just be slaughtering them. I don't like pushing buttons and having them not work for a second or 2. I want to just be able to kill people without any interference so get rid of bubble stun it's very not pvp like and was never meant to bother melee and shouldn't be in the game.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
02.04.2013 , 10:31 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by tekhiun View Post
I sort of agree with OP. Bubble stun was inserted to increase the survivaily on their current trees ( lightning / telekinetic ), depending on how they fix that they would need to improve those trees. And yes OP its a dps issue not a healer one, sorc is easy mode healing, we got the best mobility and aoe of all the healer classes.
How can you have both an op and a sorc and even attempt to make this claim? Ops only have 1 heal they have to stop for and it isn't even essential once your TA is up and have some probes going on people. Sorc AOE is certainly the biggest AOE heal and is super OP in PVE, but is basically setting up your team to get smashed in the face in PVP. I'd much rather shoot a group of 4 teammates with an ability that HoTs them even if they move (and hopefully they are moving). Resource management on ops is a joke, whereas a full Corruption spec healer will be drained in any prolonged fight or if being focused and unable to consume.
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tekhiun's Avatar


tekhiun
02.04.2013 , 10:39 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
How can you have both an op and a sorc and even attempt to make this claim? Ops only have 1 heal they have to stop for and it isn't even essential once your TA is up and have some probes going on people. Sorc AOE is certainly the biggest AOE heal and is super OP in PVE, but is basically setting up your team to get smashed in the face in PVP. I'd much rather shoot a group of 4 teammates with an ability that HoTs them even if they move (and hopefully they are moving). Resource management on ops is a joke, whereas a full Corruption spec healer will be drained in any prolonged fight or if being focused and unable to consume.
Sorcs have force speed, which is a great advantage, just look at any video with good sorcs and sage healers. You may not be able to heal yourself much but you can easily run away to do so thats what i meant by mobility.
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tacito's Avatar


tacito
02.04.2013 , 10:44 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
If it were simply the fact that it was a mez, it still would have been utilized effectively by premades and in rated when it started with 1.3. It was not viable, however, until the resolve nerfs in 1.4
Couldn't we find a point of effectiveness for stun bubbles that lies inbetween "nobody ever uses that crap" and "I can't move a single inch without being stunned again"? Pretty please?

I understand that sorcs like to have useful utility. I understand that, in a 1on1, there are ways around the bubble. But in their current form, those bubbles are not fun.

The stun works on everyone. Even if you carefully stand outside of the stun radius of your designated target, someone else next to you has his bubble popped. You're stunned now.

The stun is applied when you cancel the buff. Even if you go in for some attacks, then want to pop the bubble from a distance. your target just clicks off the buff while you're close. You're stunned now.

Related to above: You can cancel buffs while stunned or mezzed. So the bubble is actually a CC useable while CCed. For everyone on the team.

The lockout is... well. Long for a health preservation mechanism. But incredibly short for a 3 second stun.

The bubble stun is the only stun in the game (as far as I know) that doesn't respect the rule of "200 resolve per second of stun". Instead, it's half that much. So you can theoretically be stunned for 13 seconds instead of 8.

Oh, and players who have the stun bubble usually also have the 5 second root on their knockback applied. I'm not the best player in this world, so maybe it's just me. But on my operative, going against bubble stun + normal stun + rootkick, this makes me want to commit senseless acts of violence to local wildlife. On other melee characters, it's "only" incredibly annoying. A warzone with stun bubbles all over the place and 2 or 3 sages with root-enhanced knockback is essentially turn-based. Once had a warzone with 4 rootkick and bubblestun sages and 4 smashers. That was about as much fun as flossing with barbed wire, gotta tell you.

I don't know how to resolve this situation. I just know that it's about as interesting as going against operatives at launch. You're stunned every other second, and then you're dead.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
02.04.2013 , 10:52 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by tekhiun View Post
Sorcs have force speed, which is a great advantage, just look at any video with good sorcs and sage healers. You may not be able to heal yourself much but you can easily run away to do so thats what i meant by mobility.
I agree that Force Speed is one of the biggest advantages of sorcs, but against any warrior AC, leap is on a shorter CD and as long as they wait until FS is over, they'll just catch right back up. If they leap in then FS is awesome, but any decent player will save leap for when you get away. It's far more likely you will be Force Slowing them, cleansing their snare and trying to stay at 4-10 meters if you don't get a peel. From here I'd much prefer having some instant heals since they will catch me immediately after stopping. So I'm pretty much spamming Static Barrier and Resurgence unless I really have to heal someone up in which case I'm probably blowing KB, stun, or mez to buy some time.
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abhaxus's Avatar


abhaxus
02.04.2013 , 10:53 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
If it were simply the fact that it was a mez, it still would have been utilized effectively by premades and in rated when it started with 1.3. It was not viable, however, until the resolve nerfs in 1.4
Prior to 1.4 it only affected the caster, not the target that was actually bubbled. When you cast the bubble on someone and it got popped, anyone near YOU got mezzed, not the person attacking them. That was the reason I didn't run it despite running hybrid in 1.2-1.3 (for the force effusion cooldown reduction on force speed, and for the KB root).
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